Williams flat out doesn't fit

[CRA]

Through free agency and the draft we have 5 new starters and major contributors like Adams Medlock, and Alexander among others. When you add that to the guys coming back from injury, that is 8 starters we didn't have last year. That is also 8 starters from last year who offer great depth since they have starting experience.

?????????

So you think we have good depth at DT? at CB? at S? The OL? Better competition is needed at those spots.

Bottom line is if we didn't invest more in our backfield than any team in the NFL....we would be better at other spots. Doesn't have to be a big name FA for us to be better through free agency.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

posting it because it is relevent to the original point of this thread...

Panthers coach Ron Rivera admitted that Jonathan Stewart (ankle) is a "big part of what we do as an offense."

Without Stewart against the Bucs in Week 1, Panthers running backs totaled one yard on seven carries. "We'd like to get him on the field as soon as we can," Rivera said. "Without him, obviously we struggled." As of now, Stewart is considered questionable for Sunday's game against the Saints**.

[MHS831]

The typical throw everything in there but the kitchen sink type Huddle post.

What part of we philosophically are going to build through the draft and not spend big on FA don't you get. We are 8 million under the cap and have enough to secure whatever linemen or cornerback we want to get at this point. You can argue we wasted money on Williams if you want because that is an opinion which you are surely entitled to, but the whole we gave him so much money we can't afford anyone else is just not backed by the facts. We have money to spend and didn't spend it because it didn't fit the mindset of the front office which includes Richardson as well.

So you believe that we are building through the draft? Really? Everette Brown? Armanti Edwards? Jimmy Clausen? Jeff Otah? Terrell McClain?

Wow. Seems you accepted the verbage without thinking through the basis for the plan. You are right---when the GM says we are building through the draft and our drafts have SUCKED since 2008, I don't get ALL OF IT.

By the way, I read a few of your posts and avoid commenting becuase you are more interested in arguing your perspectives than opening your mind. You summarize others by putting words in their mouths that they did not say. Then you argue against the sentiments you created through exaggeration and misinterpretation. I do not have time for your nonsense, so this stops here.

[FirstRoundPick]

As for other GMs spending what we do on the RB position, who else runs our same offense?? We don't spend what GB spends on the receiver spot. Why not? We don't run a WCO.

Last thing we need is to have an offence like Green Bays.

[rockietop]

I am so glad to hear someone else say it! Love D-wil but not with this scheme-A. Smith and Poole better options with Stew so trade De-Wil to the Vikes for Jared Allen NOW

[panthers55]

So you believe that we are building through the draft? Really? Everette Brown? Armanti Edwards? Jimmy Clausen? Jeff Otah? Terrell McClain?

Wow. Seems you accepted the verbage without thinking through the basis for the plan. You are right---when the GM says we are building through the draft and our drafts have SUCKED since 2008, I don't get ALL OF IT.

By the way, I read a few of your posts and avoid commenting becuase you are more interested in arguing your perspectives than opening your mind. You summarize others by putting words in their mouths that they did not say. Then you argue against the sentiments you created through exaggeration and misinterpretation. I do not have time for your nonsense, so this stops here.

We are building through the draft and supplementing with free agency. Are we hitting home runs every time? Of course not. Have we had some picks that have sucked? Absolutely. But who hits on everyone really. You pick a minimum of 7 guys every year but how many starters or even depth players do you think you are going to get? 2 or 3 at best.

With 22 starters on the team we have replaced 12 of those with guys who currently start this year and were drafted since 2007. When you combine that with trades and free agent moves like Shockey, Olsen, Tolbert, Murphy, Edwards 1 and 2, Nakamura, Medlock, and undrafted free agents like Bell, we have largely reshaped our roster for the better following Hurney's strategy. Truth is that the biggest thing that set us back was gutting the roster in 2010 in preparation for the phantom long-term lockout. Hurney has done a pretty good restocking the cupboard which was bare.

[panthers55]

So you think we have good depth at DT? at CB? at S? The OL? Better competition is needed at those spots.

Bottom line is if we didn't invest more in our backfield than any team in the NFL....we would be better at other spots. Doesn't have to be a big name FA for us to be better through free agency.

I think we have good depth at DT, at safety, and along the OL. We actually have decent depth at cornerback if Munnerlyn actually can start as the number 2. Sunday he actually looked pretty good.

Again the backfield is 2 guys on a roster of 53. And we invested no more in 2012 than many teams did on one guy. It is ridiculous that you are blaming all our issues on the fact we have 2 starting running backs instead of 1. And we wouldn't have been better at spots but a spot since Williams counts as one guy not 5 and the money we spent on him would not have been spent on anyone else just like the 8 million we didn't spend this year.

[CRA]

I think we have good depth at DT, at safety, and along the OL. We actually have decent depth at cornerback if Munnerlyn actually can start as the number 2. Sunday he actually looked pretty good.

Again the backfield is 2 guys on a roster of 53. And we invested no more in 2012 than many teams did on one guy. It is ridiculous that you are blaming all our issues on the fact we have 2 starting running backs instead of 1. And we wouldn't have been better at spots but a spot since Williams counts as one guy not 5 and the money we spent on him would not have been spent on anyone else just like the 8 million we didn't spend this year.

We temporarily have good depth at DT. Our DT position is largely vet band aids. If we had good depth.....we wouldn't be starting a cast off immediately that was cut from a team with good depth.

We have a bunch of marginal Ss....several of them. That isn't good depth. It would be the equivalent of saying the Lions had good depth a RB last year simply bc they had bodies.

I don't blame all of our issues on over investing at RB. You just claim I do when you argue with me....that is just one of SEVERAL reasons we are weak at key positions. That big picture argument gets lost.....bc you are so intent on claiming I think that one error is the cause of everything.

And without over investing at RB we could of improved depth at several spots. Williams is just one roster spot.....but we could of brought in more Edwards caliber talent that could of knocked other guys off this roster.

And Carolina not spending every dime they currenrly have is a poor argument they wouldn't make moves.....if they built there roster differently.

..... And our backfield is 3 guys, not 2. Williams, Stewart, and Tolbert. Tolbert is more RB than FB.

[Matthias]

I really hope the zone read play isn't the staple of this offense. We got two really great backs, but with this play calling, we won't get the most out of their talent. We would get the same out of any dime a dozen running backs in this offense. So this means we spent close to 80 million dollars in one position, that any guy off the street could run? If this is Chud's gameplan throughout the season, then I wouldn't be sad to see him leave after this season.

[CRA]

I really hope the zone read play isn't the staple of this offense. We got two really great backs, but with this play calling, we won't get the most out of their talent. We would get the same out of any dime a dozen running backs in this offense. So this means we spent close to 80 million dollars in one position, that any guy off the street could run? If this is Chud's gameplan throughout the season, then I wouldn't be sad to see him leave after this season.

No one complained about the read zone last year....it was a staple then and people claimed Chud was the best OC in the NFL - and we had the top ground attack in the NFL.

Williams can't run it...need a RB to go up the gut and make his own play often. It then opens up all kinds of plays....including those cute little pitch options Williams can run and the pass.

Put Stewart out there...and suddenly it all works. Any RB can't do it. Williams has tons of talent and can't. That is why Stewart got the check....he is a bigger cog in this machine now than Williams

[MemphisGambler]

Williams could run for 2 50 yard TD's next week and his average would go way up but it still doesn't erase the fact he had -1 yards the first game.

but but but teh average

Deangelo has 1000 carries and the second highest YPC average behind Jim Brown in the statistical snapshot of YPC (1000) for NFL running backs in history. If you believe he is washed up, then I guess we will see if that is the case. CRA and Panthers55 arguments should be meshed together and reality is somewhere in between. I don't think any RB in the history of football could have succeeded last week considering the combination of Chud's bad game plan and the OL's piss poor performance. Earl Campbell is the only back I have ever seen who might have had a chance last week based on a combination of failures by Chud and the OL. Stewart and Williams are not Earl Campbell.

[MemphisGambler]

Good job changing the argument when you had a untenable position and couldn't even get the stats right. But I applaud that you might have a defensible position on this one. Was Williams inconsistent last year (which is clearly not close to be overpaid, not worth it or a bad back)?? The answer is yes he was. The real question is why and whether this was a product of him or the offense.

And actually the answer was both. The offense took time to develop and time for Chud to figure out how to use him. MJD was in an offense he was in for years and WiIliams was in a brand new one. How many times did he run for under 4 yards a carry in the last 8 games?? That would be 1. How many times did MD run for less than 4 ypc in the last 8 games? That would also be 1. Amazing what selective stats can do. But with context it is easy to see that Williams wasn't the same back in the second half of the year compared to the first.

What is lazy is just looking at yards per play from game to game and weighing them all the same regardless of whether he ran 1 time or 50. Statistically lazy and without context. Plus there are plenty of other quality stats which you ignored.

Deangelo.. 5 YPC, 1000 career carries second all time to Jim Brown at 5.2 in a 1000 carry sample. Long runs do matter and can win you a game (removing long runs from a statistical sample is absurd). Stewart is a great back and so is Deangelo. If we decided to trade Deangelo, I would want an experienced OL instead of a draft pick. We have to run the ball (Cam is not Brady, Brees, Manning 1 or 2, etc. He is a second year NFL QB with a lot of upside but he needs help). I was concerned about our OL going into this season with a declining Gross, Hangartner (should be a backup) Bell (an UDFA second year player) and Amini (rookie). I wish we had signed Carl Nicks or some other proven veteran than rolling with this group.

[CRA]

Deangelo has 1000 carries and the second highest YPC average behind Jim Brown in the statistical snapshot of YPC (1000) for NFL running backs in history. If you believe he is washed up, then I guess we will see if that is the case. CRA and Panthers55 arguments should be meshed together and reality is somewhere in between. I don't think any RB in the history of football could have succeeded last week considering the combination of Chud's bad game plan and the OL's piss poor performance. Earl Campbell is the only back I have ever seen who might have had a chance last week based on a combination of failures by Chud and the OL. Stewart and Williams are not Earl Campbell.

Read option never imploded with Stewart last year. He can take that read up the gut, make someone miss and start grinding out yards....that then sets up tons of stuff. Including Williams. It plays to his strength....unfair to assume the game unfolds the same way with Stewart in his role.

Williams could be a GREAT RB still....but Chud isn't calling games for him to have a shot at consistantly being that....nothing suggests that will change.

[MemphisGambler]

Well the Redskins beat the Saints**** running basically the same thing we did last year....they have a fraction of what we have invested in RBs

GB only has 2nd rounders at WR....what we have done at RB has no comparison. Those 2nd rounders can also be on the field together....and it doesn't have to be a gimmick play.

Based on last year, I assume we are prohibitive favorites to whip the Saints*. We should have invested more in the OL to compliment the RB investment to keep our defense off the field (since our D needs a lot of help) and protect Cam. If we can't afford both, then Hurney never should have invested in Williams and Stewart both if we want immediate results. The Skins sample size is one game and they surprised the hell out of the Saints* like Tampa surprised the Panthers. Who knows. I am not opposed to revamping our front office by the way. Maybe JR should spend some $ and sign a top notch GM and can Hurney. Maybe we should have signed a free agent TE instead of Tolbert.