Rivera may be gone today

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

Get this guy out.

[Marguide]

We all knew that Rivera was hands on with the defense and that dumb base o-zone read poo at the beginning of the year was all on chud. If you fire anybody you fire him and bring in Norv.

Why is it that many on here want to give Ron a free pass for the offensive problems? Is he not responsible for the whole team?

We didn't hire him to be our DC, we hired him to be HC.

[PantherTrain84]

My question is, I always hear people say "it will stunt Cam's growth if we bring in a new staff" how do we know that Cam wouldnt put up Peyton Manning numbers if we brought in a new staff?. Stop looking at the glass half empty

[Salvo]

My question is, I always hear people say "it will stunt Cam's growth if we bring in a new staff" how do we know that Cam wouldnt put up Peyton Manning numbers if we brought in a new staff?. Stop looking at the glass half empty

How do you know he would? We don't, that's part of the predicament that JR must rule on.

However, changing regimes is known to be quite difficult to pull off...especially in our situation where the players enjoy playing for the current one. And for the many teams that have changed coaches/FOs and were successful, there have been far more that have failed and caused teams to remain in the doldrums Teams like the Chiefs, Browns, Jags, Bills, etc change coaches all the time...destroying every shot at continuity for the sake of a new vision.

[Bj-Monster23]

How do you know he would? We don't, that's part of the predicament that JR must rule on.

However, changing regimes is known to be quite difficult to pull off...especially in our situation where the players enjoy playing for the current one. And for the many teams that have changed coaches/FOs and were successful, there have been far more that have failed and caused teams to remain in the doldrums Teams like the Chiefs, Browns, Jags, Bills, etc change coaches all the time...destroying every shot at continuity for the sake of a new vision.

The Bills had Gailey for three years and that didn't workout well for them. The Bucs went 10-6 with Morris and then the next year things got bad and they fired him. Also with Greg Schiano in his first season he has the same record as the Panthers and he swept us twice.

[grateflday]

I'd rather keep Rivera than fight for scraps with the 10 other teams who fired their coach. I really don't think there's any guys who would be an instant upgrade over Rivera.

This is sadly where I am right now. I do not necessarily think some other teams cooridinator or a college HC is an upgrade over Rivera. If the Panthers go that route they are basically starting over again with an unkown who will have to learn how to be a HC. I tend to think Rivera who has two years under his belt, has shown improvement, and all the other factors we all know is a better option than that.

[Marguide]

Other than maybe needed one more decent WR and patching up the O-line a little, I like our offense, and I think it has been working more often than not.

Most of the games we lose are because the defense couldnt keep the opposition from scoring late in the game.

I think that the defense is really starting to turn the corner.

I dont know, maybe I am blind...

Here's what I'm talking about, and the below pertains to the first 7 games or so this year:

1) No commitment or patience for the run game.

2) We ran minimum protection schemes, with high use of the spread along with 1 TE.

3) We were in shotgun nearly 85% of the time. Under center plays were a rarity

4) We continued to rely on the read option when it was clear it wasn't working

5) Everyone was healthy; injuries cannot be used as an excuse

Then Hurney gets fired, Ron and Chud begin to actually self-evaluate out of fear, and we begin to make the changes that should have occured week 4 at the absolute latest. People are forgetting the early part of the season.

[Salvo]

The Bills had Gailey for three years and that didn't workout well for them. The Bucs went 10-6 with Morris and then the next year things got bad and they fired him. Also with Greg Schiano in his first season he has the same record as the Panthers and he swept us twice.

The Bills haven't been relevant since the 90s. Changing coaches hasn't worked well for them and quite honestly, their choice in coaches has been questionable at best which would point the finger at the FO. Gailey coached at an option offense haven for half a decade and flopped as an OC for the Chiefs before coming to the Bills. Who thought that would have worked?

The Bucs don't seem to be playing hard for their coaches anymore, which is the exact opposite with this team. 10-6 was dandy for Morris but was an absolute disaster the next year after the same strong start. Same thing with Schiano this year. Start off strong...flop at the end. Says more about the team than it does the coach.

There are exceptions to the rule, yes, but if we wanted to change regimes, it has to work from the get go and sustain. I don't want to see this team go through coaches like underwear.

[Anybodyhome]

"The coaches made the calls to win said games. The players are responsible to execute."

Okay. Gotcha. Don't totally disagree.

"We all knew that Rivera was hands on with the defense and that dumb base o-zone read poo at the beginning of the year was all on chud. If you fire anybody you fire him and bring in Norv."

But wait, didn't you just say it was up to the players to execute?

Now I'm confused. First you say the coaches make the game plan and the players are to execute that game plan. But that apparently doesn't apply to the offense because you're blaming a poor offensive execution on Chud and you want him fired.

Sorry, can't have it both ways. The head coach is the captain of the ship and he is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team in all 3 phases- offense, defense and special teams.

[BIGH2001]

No one is considering the fact that maybe Rivera is getting over the learning curve and

becoming a good NFL head coach. I was one of the detractors too but the team really showed me something at the end of the season. I know it's more fun to bitch about the awful start and throw out stupid and unproven platitudes like "this franchise is content with being mediocre" but think people are overlooking that we have something here with the momentum and it looks like everyone is starting to turn a corner.

[KJ89]

This is how I feel. A coaching change could be a huge set back for this team and player development. Then again it could be just what the doctor ordered.

JR has a tough call to make.

Ditto. I'm torn on what to think. Part of me thinks we should give him a third year, part of my feels he needs to go. I think it boils down to who we know we can get in replacement.

[rayzor]

I just do not understand why pro football players, many of who are paid millions, need so much time to learn how to win.

it's the coaches job to put them in the best situation to win...to get them prepared and able to carry out their plans, and their plans to not give the other team an opportunity to win.

he put the team in a situation to win, and then put them in a situation at the end of games to lose. you give the other team the ball and you give them an opportunity to score. i don't care how good you think your coaching is or your defense is...you can not trust your defense to keep the other team from scoring. the rules make it too easy to get downfield and in scoring position, as has been proven time and time again.

the problems with the offense for most of the season was most certainly a problem of coaching. it lies squarely on rivera's shoulders. did the players execute well enough? nope. did they make mistakes? yep. did the coaching staff change up what they want to do to fit what the players could handle or give them a plan that the players could excel in? yep....when it was too late.

the coaching staff didn't have the players prepared. they didn't adjust fast enough in coming up with a better game plan or playcalling that fit what their players could do at the time.

if the players aren't living up to expectations, it's up to the coaching staff to get them there or to put together a plan they can perform with.

we lost games we could have won. we had the talent to do it. the offense took huge steps backwards from where they were last year and it took them too long to get it back together. was the problem the players or the playcalling? it was both, but the majority falls on the playcalling. it's up to the coaches to put together a plan that works, and they didn't.

[SCMunnerlyn1]

"The coaches made the calls to win said games. The players are responsible to execute."

Okay. Gotcha. Don't totally disagree.

"We all knew that Rivera was hands on with the defense and that dumb base o-zone read poo at the beginning of the year was all on chud. If you fire anybody you fire him and bring in Norv."

But wait, didn't you just say it was up to the players to execute?

Now I'm confused. First you say the coaches make the game plan and the players are to execute that game plan. But that apparently doesn't apply to the offense because you're blaming a poor offensive execution on Chud and you want him fired.

Sorry, can't have it both ways. The head coach is the captain of the ship and he is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team in all 3 phases- offense, defense and special teams.

Way to read past it and make it something else. The plays to win the games that we lost because of one play were called correctly. The piss machines we lost by several points had a lot to do with the piss poor offense we ran early in the season. All on chud.

[Anybodyhome]

Not "reading past," was quoting your very words.

I'm not in total disagreement with what you're saying. The Chud-designed read option offense sucks, I know that and I agree with that.

But you're simply saying the offense was piss-poor because of the coaching, when in fact the offense works extremely well for some college teams. So, is their coaching better or is their execution better? I'll break it down for you. The read option- as designed by Chud for the Panthers- does not work in the NFL for a single, simple reason- the placement of the hashmarks. The RO offense Chud wants to run requires the QB to stretch the play parallel to the line of scrimmage before making the commitment as to a QB run, pitch or pass.

It works in college because the hash marks are 60' from the sideline and 40' between them. NFL hashmarks are almost 20' narrower. In the college game the placement of the ball on the hashmarks allows for short-siding the field either left or right and, conversely, gives a college offense a lot more room to one side to stretch the option. Chud attempted to run this same style option with much less field space, hence, we saw Cam run out of room before the play even developed.

This is but one reason the RO offense doesn't work in the NFL.