"Fox easily ranks as the best coach in Panthers history"

[ckad79]

Fox's performance as a coach, over the years, has been up and down.

The same can be said for Jake's performances.

It's hard to pinpoint the good times and bad times, on what Fox is doing, in deciding to whether or not, label him a "great coach".

Very few of his guys come to play every game. That's true.

That might have something to do with Fox. Maybe? Maybe not?

In hindsight, you look at Steve Smith & Jon Beason and realize that they don't give roller coaster seasons, because they come to play every game.

Does that have more to do with their upbringing? In the case of Beason, I think Miami made him a warrior. As far as Fox's role... I dunno.

I guess that would my argument about him... does he actually make the people around him better? Would Jake be "as good", worse, or better under a difference coach? Would they push him or challenge him differently? Isn't that what great coaches do?

[Jangler]

Stop with the positves. We all know Fox sucks, he is a meddling conservative fool, he is on the hotseat, he hasn't won a Super Bowl and everything else.

Did I miss anything??????

You forgot, if it weren't for injuries, he would have 20 more wins and 3 or 4 Superbowls.

But injuries are an excuse, so it's a good thing you didn't bring them up...:thumbsup:

[ncbobcat]

I think part of the rollercoaster ride has to do with injuries, drafts and stubborness in philosophy.

We've had two seasons where injuries have riddled the team. Despite those years the team has managed no fewer than 7 victories. I think Fox as a motivator is a large reason for that.

Our drafts have not been stellar. Management pretty much nailed the first rounders, which is a plus, but have gotten very mixed results from the remaining selections. That could be as much of scouting issue as anything else.

The stubborness issue is probably what has dogged the team from being a little better than the resuts in the past. Fox, to his credit for sticking with his MO though maybe to the detrement of the team, has refused to change when things turn bad. Adjusting on the fly isn't something he prefers or is comfortable with. The Arizona game is a prime example. Adjustments...rather corrections, are seemingly done at halftime. Again, It's either an issue of sticking with the game plan, MO or pride rather than saying "this isn't working, let's change courses."

[MaineManPanther]

While I like fox plenty. Being the best Panthers coach in history isn't a huge achievement

[mantal]

While I like fox plenty. Being the best Panthers coach in history isn't a huge achievement

I'm not going to question that statement, it's not a big bar, I agree, but I'm still saying John Fox is one of the best coaches in the game and if we lose him we'll be in a world of hurt for several years until we find another. Many fans don't believe this, but it's true. It shouldn't be so hard to figure out, but apparently it is...

[Brandon]

are we winning 7 a year at a minimum because of Fox or in spite of him?

Jake?

Fox isn't perfect, by any means, but he has managed to help us win games in spite of some horrible circumstances (2004, 2007). I'm still amazed we won 7 games two years ago with the awful mess we had at the QB position and the OL we had at the time, which says a lot. As for Jake, our best years are with him healthy and under center, even if he may not be the explicit reason for winning but he is for why we didn't lose some games.

Neither are perfect but I'd much rather have them than most of the alternatives.

[panthers55]

I think part of the rollercoaster ride has to do with injuries, drafts and stubborness in philosophy.

We've had two seasons where injuries have riddled the team. Despite those years the team has managed no fewer than 7 victories. I think Fox as a motivator is a large reason for that.

Our drafts have not been stellar. Management pretty much nailed the first rounders, which is a plus, but have gotten very mixed results from the remaining selections. That could be as much of scouting issue as anything else.

The stubborness issue is probably what has dogged the team from being a little better than the resuts in the past. Fox, to his credit for sticking with his MO though maybe to the detrement of the team, has refused to change when things turn bad. Adjusting on the fly isn't something he prefers or is comfortable with. The Arizona game is a prime example. Adjustments...rather corrections, are seemingly done at halftime. Again, It's either an issue of sticking with the game plan, MO or pride rather than saying "this isn't working, let's change courses."

Actually you are being very simplistic on the adjusting part when you use the Arizona game as an example. When do you think you have time during the game to make wholesale adjustments between series. Sure you can make minor adjustments and should but changing from a cover 3 zone under to playing man on Fitzgerald was a major change in philosophy and took some time to make sure everyone knew their assignments. I think they should have done that from the beginning and practiced it during the 2 weeks getting ready. But they stuck with what they had done all year and got burned as a result. That wasn't being stubborn as much as underestimating the Cardinals and being too predictable on defense. Perhaps we should fault Fox and Trgo for being too simplistic and developing a poor gameplan on defense.

You are right that he is stubborn but that is good and bad. I wish he had been more stubborn in sticking with the run game instead of abandoning it by going on the fly with a passing attack.

Part of being stubborn is necessary. As a coach you have to instill confidence in your team and exude calmness in your approach whether you are up 20 or down 20. You can't panic and you have to balance the effect of sticking with the gameplan and exorting the team to execute better versus making wholesale changes which is often interpreted as panic. Coaches preach sticking with what works or got you there and executing better. For him to just make wholesale changes in gameplan or personnel suggests he doesn't have faith in the players or the gameplan. On the other hand expecting teams to do the same thing they did before is stupid. Teams need to anticipate what the other team will do and be willing to make adjustments as they go. But if they practice those contingencies during practice it should be doable.

On the other hand being vanilla and predictable without developing new wrinkles is partly stubborn but to me it is more stupidity or overconfidence both which tend to bite you.

[Brooklyn Bully]

Why is this even a thread?

[Mr. Scot]

There can be little doubt that Fox is the best head coach the Panthers have had. Likewise, there can be little doubt that it's not that big a competition.

You can break down some of the positives and negatives of Fox's tenure based in some of the people he's had on staff.

POSITIVES:

Jeff Davidson (so far)

Jim Skipper

Richard Williamson

Dave Magazu

Sam Mills

Scott O'Brien

Mike Trgovac (DL coach)

Danny Crossman (last year)

Jack Del Rio

Marty Hurney

NEGATIVES:

Mike Trgovac (DC)

Dan Henning

Danny Crossman (prior years)

Tony Softli

Mike Maser

Tony Wise

Tim Lewis

Sal Sunseri (in the wrong position)

I think the best summary of Fox is to say that as a coach, he's learning and improving, and having a coach that's actually capable of doing that shouldn't be taken for granted, because some just plain don't.

[1789Cardiac Cats9020]

You won't get a 14+ win season from Fox, but no matter the circumstances, he'll never drop below 7 wins either. I call that solid consistency