Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

[CRA]

Links or it didn't happen......

 

Besides mechanics have to be taken in context. Arnold Palmer was supposed to have terrible mechanics but the bottom line is as long as the ball goes down the fairway 200 yards consistently it doesn't matter how it started. He compensated, hit big shots and won consistently. Likewise if Cam were throwing off his back foot but hitting receivers in stride consistently and not missing wide open guys would we be having this debate.  I say not.

 

water is wet....I see no need to provide links for you for such things.

 

anyone who doesn't acknolwedge Eli Manning has displayed horrible on field body language over their course of his career....hasn't watched him or is seeking a pointless/endless arguement.

[CRA]

I was just listening to Rich Gannon  on NFl Sirius picking the games this weekend. He started off talking about all the stats that Cam has had in his first 2 years and complimenting him but then goes on to say he is still missing wide open guys and making too many mistakes.  He picked the Giants saying they have the better quarterback and that will be the difference.

 

Another quarterback guru stating the obvious. Stating the same thing I have said in this thread over and over. 

 

I'd pick NY too....b/c they have a better OL to aid their QB, better weapons to aid the QB, and secondary to hinder the opposing QB.

 

again, you see it is mainly a Cam thing.  The other moving parts influence who the better QB will be

[TheRed]

Yeah the problem is that people here are trying so hard to excuse Cam for everything they can't see honest criticism when it occurs and try and make wild exaggerations in order to try and support their point.

Am I saying that our offensive support for Cam is terrific?  No

Am I saying the offense line is great?  No

Am I saying Shula is a great coordinator?  Too early to tell either way.

Am I saying the offensive woes are all on Newton?  No

 

Do I support him every home game by rooting for his success, wearing his jersey and yelling my butt off in the stands? Yes on all counts.  Do I defend him from baseless criticism when people talk about poor leadership, sulking, or not being smart enough to  play football.   Yes I have on numerous occasions.

 

I also criticize him when it is not only obvious but known by every quarterback guru and  expert out there (not ESPN or talking heads) yes.  I could go to any message board in the world outside Charlotte but this one and it wouldn't be a debate.  Only on Panther sites do apologists line up to make excuses.

 

Then this is why we are going around on circles. Those issues you have listed off are what everyone here has been discussing. Yet you continue to go off on these tangents and dismissing them as merely excuses.

 

I literally haven't seen one person here yet that has communicated with you and not acknowledged that Cam has things to work on. We all know he does, he knows it himself, and I know that he is working hard on it.

 

I see you talk about 10+ year veterans such as Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, etc when mentioning Cam. Yet you continually criticize a guy in his third year and expect him to be complete like those guys right now.

[panfan32]

Even if I were to concede your point, what does that tell you about Cam that he has been the most prolific passer in NFL history over his first two seasons and yet can't make basic reads?

Because eventually just through experience he will improve on on his reads. He will anticipate better. He maybe the greatest QB ever.

Look I will just ask the "experts" this and the people agreeing with them feel free to give your opinion.

How does a QB that has wild accuracy issues and cannot make basic reads or basic throws and many experts have also said he doesn't have any weapons around him so since they are experts let's say he has no weapons.

Okay. So we have a QB with bad accuracy, can't make basic reads, can't make basic throws, and has no weapons (according to experts)

How does that guy break every passing record for the first to seasons of a career with less total passes than the other QBs that were close to that yardage? Someone explain that to me in a rational way and maybe I will be less forgiving to Cam.

 

OK here is my imput on this.

 

For one He can make the throws when given time. That has been seen. But when given time and he properly plants his damn feet and follows through on his pass.  He is a BIG strong guy and tends to throw the ball will all arm and shoulder. Doing this will always kill your accuracy.

 

Also am I against CAM hell no. I love watching him play. I see what he can become if he is taught correctly and he learns from his mistakes.

 

Is he missing reads Yes. IS this due to poor pass protection. Possibly. Is this is fault No. As a coach if you have a week pass protection, you have to change your damn game plan. THE DAMN OC needs to run more (WHICH HAS BEEN WORKING!) do more passes to the flats and more screen passes. this will help alive some of the pass pressure and possibly bring a safety up to help out. It may even slow down a pass rush.

 

Now about his passing records. Yes he has a lot of passing, running and TD records. But lets put this into perspective. His first year, no one knew what he could do or how to plan against him (AS A DC) for the first half of the season. this is where he had the bulk of his passing yards. Then the second half he blew up the rushing yards.

 

His second season was more conventional. Balance (IMO) between passing and running. DC's had a whole year to plan against him. His passing yards dropped and his rushing yards. This also could have been affected by the more convention run game down the stretch. This also could have to do with the crappy us of the read option which would (in year 1) bring the defense up closer to account for his running ability. Now the DC's have a year to plan against him they made better game plans and (For the most part) stopped the read option.  Because of the read option being shut down in the earlier part of the season, the Panthers where force to pass the ball more. Hmm more passes = more passing yards. But could have = more INT's to. But um he reduced his INT's from the previous year.

 

Now granted, I have not looked at his states for the two years or compared the game states from the two years. This is just a theory.

 

But the facts are, when he plants his feet he is as accurate as any QB in the game. Does he have the skills. Yes. Does he need a few more pieces on Offense HELL YES. Oline needs an OG and a true RT. At least freaking Otah could pass block.

 

WR's still stumped they kept Dominick Hixon over Gettis. Sorry Its just me, but Gettis to me proved himself to be back and a capable weapon. Hixon made what 1 damn catch in preseason. WTFE!

 

People stop beating up CAM. He has issues yes. With proper coaching it can be fixed. READ MY LIPS PROPER COACHING!!!!. But we have bigger issues here. OLINE, WR's, CB's SS's, FS's. Hell even the LB's are not playing well. I swear if I see one more underneath pass to a TE or HB that goes uncoved by a damn LB's Im driving to the stadium and bitch slapping them. our LB Corp is a hell of a lot better than how they have been playing.

 

[beastson]

I was just listening to Rich Gannon  on NFl Sirius picking the games this weekend. He started off talking about all the stats that Cam has had in his first 2 years and complimenting him but then goes on to say he is still missing wide open guys and making too many mistakes.  He picked the Giants saying they have the better quarterback and that will be the difference.

 

Another quarterback guru stating the obvious. Stating the same thing I have said in this thread over and over. 

 

Did he mention the dropped passes?

[beastson]

I like how people pick and choose with Cam. Held to completely different standards vs other QB's

[tiger7_88]

i agree mostly with this i'd rather cam hold the ball then force it into coverage and throw a int, yes cam can do better in some areas but our FO has done poorly to build anything around cam......guys often on here say cam stares down his receiver i find that hard to believe becuase his int's would skyrocket if that's the case

 

 

Great, great point.

 

In the NFL, defensive backs NOTICE that poo quick and make you pay.

 

And yet in two games he has 3 TDs (which would translate to 24 for the year at the current rate) and 1 int (which would translate to 8 for the year).

 

I guess the NFL DBs and DCs just aren't noticing all this "staring down" that some Panther "fans" have picked up on.  When they catch up with these Panther "fans" after their film study, WATCH OUT CAM! 

[tiger7_88]

 Cam had little passing opportunities or attempts in college

 

 

Cam had more pass attempts at Auburn than he did rush attempts.

 

He threw the ball on average 20 times per game, averaging a little more than 200 yds passing per game, with an average of 2.1 TDs per game and 0.5 ints per game.

[tiger7_88]

It seems that for some reason many of you guys are holding Cam to a standard that is not likely attainable. You have unrealistic expectations. 

 

 

There's a reason for this.

[stirs]

Cam had more pass attempts at Auburn than he did rush attempts.

 

He threw the ball on average 20 times per game, averaging a little more than 200 yds passing per game, with an average of 2.1 TDs per game and 0.5 ints per game.

 

He had less than 300 total pass attempts in his whole college career.  That is what I am saying when I say coaches had little to go on as far as a body of work.  Most of them was in one season also.

 

Lots of QB's have more attempts each year and end up with 1000 or more for film and review.

 

Face it, Cam had one year in college where he starred and threw most of his attempts.  This is why I say the Panthers had a lot of faith with little else to go on when he was drafted.

 

[footballisasport]

Oh my, folks in the media a now regurgitating the endless Cam experts on this site. How sad. Do u folks realize that as pathetic as Blain Gabbert is not one person is cricizing his every performance like u folks r with Cam? Some of u r so damn obvious.

[footballisasport]

Lol I remember in the preseason against Ravens, Cam had the best protection I've seen on one play and completely stepped into the pocket... into his throw and the ball hit Lafell directly in his chest and dropped what would have been a 20+ reception

 

What I think? Cam confidence are in 2 players. Olsen, Smith. Hopefully towards middle of the season he gain confidence and chem with Ginn

 

 

Please stop making sense. I wondered that same sentiment on here a couple of weeks ago. The only difference was, I felt that either Cam didn't have confidence in some of the other receivers because they haven shown him they are reliable or Smitty is in his ear like he was with Clausen.

 

I watch a lot of football, hence my name. There are many QBs, including Vets, who make the same mistakes some of these "experts" are always trying to point out week in and out with Cam. But funny thing is, those QBs' teams are still winning despite those mistakes. Why Can't the Panthers? I wish some would obsess over trying to find the answer to this team's inability to win as much as they seem to love being up Cam's butt with a maginifying glass.

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

.........it annoys me that anyone who tries and explain that CAM is not the sole problem they instantly become a "Cam apologists" but yet you guys who pick apart cam's game never have anything POSITIVE to say, which in general would put off a vibe that either you have some personal beef with cam or you never liked him from day 1. There has yet to be one person in this thread whos stated " This is all on blah blah blah Cam is playing perfect, he has no flaws this is all on blah blah blah" we've all stated Cam has his issues but to believe this is even the source of the REAL problem is absence minded IMHO. My question to those who believe Cam is the problem, What would you suggest?

[IGSaint]

Those who pick apart cam when he clearly is not the problem as it relates to wins are cam haters. There are no two ways about that. They need to just come out and admit that they don't like cam or trust cam. It's a lot easier to disregard the opinion of a cam hater, instead of reading the opinion of cam hater who masquerades as an impartial panther fan.