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Tolbert Provides Options

Nov 01 2013 06:08 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
Mike Tolbert has quickly become a fan favorite on the Panthers roster.

The "Human Bowling Ball" as his friends call him has proved to be a reliable back that both gains yards, touchdowns, and even receives passes all while quickly wearing the opposing defenses down.

During the Rams game we saw what Tolbert was truly capable of late in the game. With the Panthers needing to run the clock and hold on to the lead. The Panthers handed the job to Tolbert, who ran aggressively and with the purpose to administer damage to the defense. The Rams never recovered.

So far this season Touchdown Mike has 5 touchdowns, 3 on the ground and 2 in the air. He is averaging 3.6 yards per carry, not bad for a guy whose primary job is to grind out tough yards when needed.

Tolbert's performance will give GM David Gettleman plenty of options this offseason when it comes to dealing with the salary cap. I do not expect Jonathan Stewart and Mike Tolbert both to be on the 2014 roster.

Releasing Jonathan Stewart would yield a cap savings of 5.75 million through 2015. Releasing Mike Tolbert would save the Panthers 4.7 million against the cap. That difference of 1.05 million is huge when considering lingering extensions of Cam Newton and Luke Kuechly. The decision will come down Stewart's durability and the increased effectiveness of Touchdown Mike in the Shula offense.

I believe the decision will be to stick with Tolbert.

Whatever the outcome, at least for now, we can all enjoy seeing Tolbert and Stewart on the same field.

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47 Comments

:: before

Let's thank Mike Shula for recognizing his talent, unlike (ahem) you know who.  :startle:

shitposting
Nov 01 2013 06:23 AM

If Stewart does well in the remainder of this season do you think he could be traded? If so what would his worth be?

If Stewart does well in the remainder of this season do you think he could be traded? If so what would his worth be?


His age, contract, past injuries, and how RB are more dime a dozen in the present NFL makes it seem like it's going to be near impossible to trade him IMO.
If I wasn't such a jinx I'd buy a Tolbert jersey. I love that guy.

Zod...buddy, I don't think your cap numbers are right.

 

That said, I'm really sleepy and could be wrong.

 

 

When you release someone you accelerate the cap hit and lose the base salary.

 

 

Releasing Stewy next season would be something towards a 17 million dollar dead money cap hit.

What makes it weird, is he has a 9 million "Option Bonus" in 2014. So it makes the math a little fuzzy

http://www.spotrac.c...nathan-stewart/

 

 

Cutting Tolbert would save like 300K in 2014. Not worth it for the quality he brings IMO.

http://www.spotrac.c...s/mike-tolbert/

How much do we save by getting rid of Williams? I think it's near impossible to get rid of JStew and Tolbert is too valuable and much cheaper than both.  

How Stewart performs during the second half of the year will probably have a lot to do with it.  He is a combination of Williams and Tolbert, speed and power.  If he can stay healthy and gets back to form, it will be a tough call.  Dwill has been a workhorse for us. 

 

Hurney made it inevitable when he signed both to big extensions.  That's too much money tied-up in one position. 

 

 It wasn't long ago that the Panthers were rumored to be shopping Williams, but that was under Hurney. 

The issue is we are likely tied to this trio of running backs and a duo of rough contracts for the next couple of years.

Id pick tolbert hands down. More reliable and versatile. Not easy droppin Stew, but I dnt think there is a doubt who is the better option movin forward. Stewart is one of the best....."WHEN healthy."

Assuming Stewart comes back OK and the other two stay healthy, none of 'em are gonna get the number of touches they'd like this season. DWill has been tagged the starter and will continue to get most of the carries if he continues to perform. Stewart will have to be game tested to see if his wheels will hold up, and Tolbert is too valuable for the things he can do to get put on the shelf. One of the high priced guys may not be here next season, but it'll be nice to be loaded until then.

the only way it's that easy to get rid of stewart is if hurney wasn't the cap idiot everyone thought he was.

Zod...buddy, I don't think your cap numbers are right.

 

That said, I'm really sleepy and could be wrong.

 

 

When you release someone you accelerate the cap hit and lose the base salary.

 

 

Releasing Stewy next season would be something towards a 17 million dollar dead money cap hit.

What makes it weird, is he has a 9 million "Option Bonus" in 2014. So it makes the math a little fuzzy

http://www.spotrac.c...nathan-stewart/

 

 

Cutting Tolbert would save like 300K in 2014. Not worth it for the quality he brings IMO.

http://www.spotrac.c...s/mike-tolbert/

 

I was talking in terms of base salary only. We are going to pay Stewart's crazy signing bonus regardless. It does get accelerated if we release Stewart but its a pay now or pay later kind of thing. No way around it unfortunately.

 

Remember paying Delhomme all that money when he wasn't even on the team? Ugh.

#AfterTheSeasonProblems

Zod...buddy, I don't think your cap numbers are right.

 

That said, I'm really sleepy and could be wrong.

 

 

When you release someone you accelerate the cap hit and lose the base salary.

 

 

Releasing Stewy next season would be something towards a 17 million dollar dead money cap hit.

What makes it weird, is he has a 9 million "Option Bonus" in 2014. So it makes the math a little fuzzy

http://www.spotrac.c...nathan-stewart/

 

 

Cutting Tolbert would save like 300K in 2014. Not worth it for the quality he brings IMO.

http://www.spotrac.c...s/mike-tolbert/

 

The foundation of this offense is the running game due to dynamics backs & Cams running ability...This gives us multiple option in the run game, especially during 3rd & 4th down conversion and goal line situation = winning games. 

 

We never imagined this off-season that Gettleman would bring us down under the cap like he did. I expect him to work his magic again this year and keep our backfield intact. I think we build on this offense through 2014 draft  (OG,OT, & WR) with elite defense already , we will have elite offense for years! :cam1:

I was talking in terms of base salary only. We are going to pay Stewart's crazy signing bonus regardless. It does get accelerated if we release Stewart but its a pay now or pay later kind of thing. No way around it unfortunately.

 

Remember paying Delhomme all that money when he wasn't even on the team? Ugh.

 

We paid him the signing bonus, but not the salary. 

 

In terms of saved salary it would be 14 million over 3 years saved, you would save his 2014-15-16 base salaries.  You can even throw in cutting him next season to avoid the 9 million option bonus and maybe make an argument you are saving 23 million over 3 years. BUT.....

 

That doesn't do anything for the 17million in dead money that would hit in 2014. Unless I am understanding this incorrectly Stewart is basically un-cutable (when it comes to cutting for cap savings) until 2016 or so.

Never say never.  I was wrong about Beason not being tradable because of his contract but I think he redid his contract with the intention of the Panthers trading him to a team where he'd start.

 

I don't see Stu willing to do that.  And I see no way we're taking that big a cap hit for him next year and cutting him. 

 

Cutting Tolbert would save us a million but I don't think that savings is worth it.  Keeping Mike.

 

Williams would be the odd man out because of age and his bonus acceleration wouldn't kill us.  We owe him 9.6 we have to buy.  June first cut we'll have 4.8 in dead money in 2014 and 15.  But we'll save 2.2 million by cutting him since 6 million otherwise.

 

I would not be shocked to see all three stay depending on Stew's health but if I had to bet I'd say we've going to have Thunder and bigger Thunder next year.

I don't know who'd I prefer to keep if we had to choose between Stewart and Tolbert. One thing I'm not sold on about Tolbert is his run-blocking ability. I enjoy watching him run and catch passes, though.

Can't we designate him as a 1June cut and break that gmoney down over two years?

 

I think the gmoney would only get accelerated if we traded him.

 

Still, I'd like to see Gettleman figure out this Gordian knot of Hurney's making and keep the Dancing Bear.

 

Man is that guy fun to watch. 

Hurney was definitely on drugs when he gave away those deals to Stew, CJ, D-will, and Godfrey. Jesus Christ.

Here's a solution....let's go to Mike and offer him a restructure and extension.  

 

Cut the salary a little bit for the next 2 seasons so we can afford Stew and DWill....cause I don't

see any team trading for them.

 

After that 2 more years at an increased salary that is guaranteed.  

 

He gets a longer contract, more money.

We make it easier to deal with Hurney madness.

Can't we designate him as a 1June cut and break that gmoney down over two years?

 

I think the gmoney would only get accelerated if we traded him.

 

Still, I'd like to see Gettleman figure out this Gordian knot of Hurney's making and keep the Dancing Bear.

 

Man is that guy fun to watch. 

Its escalated either way. You have to account for that paid $.

 

 

Hurney was definitely on drugs when he gave away those deals to Stew, CJ, D-will, and Godfrey. Jesus Christ.

It's not so much the amount as how much of it is Guaranteed. Stews contract has almost ALL of his Guaranteed cash at the end of it. Hurney likely thought he would be releasing or re-doing DWill's deal to make it all work. He was basically saying Williams + Stew = Adrian Peterson, but we know what isn't true.

Here's a solution....let's go to Mike and offer him a restructure and extension.  

 

Cut the salary a little bit for the next 2 seasons so we can afford Stew and DWill....cause I don't

see any team trading for them.

 

After that 2 more years at an increased salary that is guaranteed.  

 

He gets a longer contract, more money.

We make it easier to deal with Hurney madness.

 

 

Tolbert's contract doesn't even really affect us. 

 

He's like a 3 million cap hit at most for the length of the deal.http://www.spotrac.c...s/mike-tolbert/

 

Considering the level of play he brings, I think that's a good deal.

The way I see it, Stewart and Tolbert will be our starters next season. Barner still needs more development and Williams will likely be cut due to age and cap. Seriously, Stewart is impossible to get rid of but he's a freak even when injured and his running style is more attractive to G-Man over D-Will's. Prior to last season, he hadn't missed significant time so I'm sticking with my belief that J-Stew will be a Panther for awhile.

Now that I am awake I did have an error this morning.

 

 

 

Here is how Stewart would work out if cut. 

 

First Number is Cap Hit

Second Number is Dead Money if Cut

 

5,496,250              18,185,000               So the Panthers would LOSE roughly 13 Million in cap space

 

8,496,250              12,688,750              Panthers LOSE roughly 4 Million in cap space

 

9,746,250               6,192,500               Panther Gain roughly 3 Million in cap space.

 

 

The most likely event, if we are to lose one of the Running Backs, would be Williams is  cut next season. It would COST 3 million in space for next year or 1.5 million in space the next two if it was a June 1 designation. I find this highly unlikely, unless Stewart becomes Herschel Walker all of a sudden and he has no risk of future ankle issues. 

 

 

We will have Williams, Stewart, Tolbert, and Barner for next season. In 2015 Williams can be cut for basically no cap hit whatsoever (300K hit).  The next season Stewart can be cut and we save 3 million and the last of the Hurney Nightmare Offseason will be behind us.

If Stewart is not cut or trade-able then I see no reason to rush him into much playing time. If he's going to be around they might as well make sure he is healthy for the following seasons.