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We aren’t even talking about him specifically at this point. Can you yourself not make everything about him and objectively look at the stat and our criticism of it?

Raw speed is the one thing that can't be taught. That said, we used to have Ted Ginn, a guy who had wheels for days. But, man oh man would Ginn drop the easiest of catches. Still, super fast guy with cannon arm QB was the ideal pairing. T-Mac isn't going to pull away like Ginn but he does all the other things well, especially for a rookie. It's looking like a great pick so far although we really needed to draft someone like him earlier.

That depends. Last year, he was fools gold mostly. He had looked so horrible that even below average play was a big step up and made him look better than he was. He never had a game like Sunday. That was so far above his average… if he can keep that up or close, I think maybe it would be safer to trust that he has had the switch come on. He has a horrible trend of following his best performance with complete poo so if he can stay out of that pattern and give us something good on top of Sunday and to finish the year I would feel a lot better. I am talking high bar, not just not totally sucking.

I think a large part of it falls too on the sheer volume of injuries to receivers and TEs. I can't remember a year when so many players have gone down to injury. It's been a numbers battle since week 6 it seems like.

I am big on big picture stuff, like that idea for example. Zag when everyone else is zigging. Because you will never get anywhere being a middle of the pack follower of trends. At the root is and always will be sound football concepts. Run the ball stop the run. Been hearing that for decades and it holds true through all the shifting trends and fads. If you think about it, we are so far ahead of everyone right now. We are setting the trend of tiny weak armed QBs. Soon everyone will be chasing them then we can swoop in and grab the best out of the old fashioned ones with size and big arms and start a new trend. That has to be the plan we just couldn’t see it.

Some of his roll outs into sacks are pretty bad..

You just can't measure if a guy is that dude or not with numbers. The whole notion of GWD as a statistic is borderline useless. All it tells you is how many times a team took the lead in the 4th quarter and won the game. There's so many factors baked into that both on and off the field. The way coaches adjust in the games. The way referees call games. Injuries, weather, luck, etc. The reason this particular topic is so funny is because nobody realized it even happened. You didn't need a post summing up all of Jake's game winning drives to realize they actually happened. Everyone knew Jake was that dude because he drove the team down into scoring range every single week. The slumdog millionaire run of pass interference calls, etc. There's just too many of them that are not even worth talking about.

I'm not so sure it was making him play safety as it was changing the secondary to 4 CBs and a S. Its just a different set based on matchups.

Bryce Young to me doesn't pass the eye test of clutch. To me, big moments are all over the map and game. Biggest play in the game could be in the 3rd quarter for example. Bryce is bad in a lot of really big moments in games.

Its a double edged sword. In order to comeback you either were never in the lead or lost it at some point. There's no data point for that.

It really should only be applied per season. If you want to guage if you to track per season average or trend that's really the only time it matters beyond 1 season.

You could ask on being "clutch".....is how many times does a GWD scenario present itself and you pull it off is required to actually be deemed clutch.

I don't think there is any definitive criteria for "comeback wins." Game Winning Drives was something developed and has set criteria. I look at GWD as basically useful for giving some insight into the totality of a career and the accomplishments. If a player has a lot of GWD or 4QC(4th Quarter Comebacks) in comparison to similar peers, one could use it as the basis or starting point for a debate on how "clutch" a player might be. I don't think I would utilize it much more than something along those lines because it's very specific and not really indicative of overall quality of a player.

Better question. Can you consistently make the playoffs while paying him 45m a year for the next 5 years?

It took Bryce 2 1/2 , almost 3 years to do what Cam did his first fugging game. Yet , he's the second coming of Tom Brady now. Will he be decent, probably, will he be dominant stud, doubtful. Can you win a SB, with him??? If the answer is no, then you have to keep looking, that is ghe ultimate goal is it not?????

Grasping at what straws? Yesterday Bryce got credit for the comeback but how much of that was really Bryce? If we're being honest, he threw a 5 yard pass that Tremble took and obliterated the Atlanta defense with, followed up by handoffs to Dowdle to set up the game winning field goal. Was that Bryce willing the team to victory making play after play, or was he the QB that threw the pass to another player who made an amazing effort that put the team in position to win? I hate the term GWD because it's rarely a QB actually putting the whole offense on his back and leading a team down the field with pinpoint pass after pass. So let's be realistic and give Young his credit where it's due. In how many of those games where he had a GWD, do you feel he was playing well enough the entire game that you would feel 100% confident he could lead the team from the 20 80 yards down field in under 2 minutes to score a touchdown? Yesterday might be the only one I could say that about. That's not being a hater. That's just what I've seen watching him play.

not just poo play to start the season. Bryce has been poo almost this entire season. I mean, if Bryce doesn't comeback out of the lockerroom on Sunday.....I think the Panthers were going to bench him. I just don't see how they could of trotted him back out there. Because it would been another disaster on top of a bunch of recent bad play.

I have not read the rest of this thread, so I’m probably stating something someone else has already stated, so forgive me. Gosh it just sucks to see this sort of potential from Bryce. Obviously you want the ability to be there than completely absent. But it just makes you wonder why the hell he can’t conjure it more often. We don’t need him to play like he did yesterday all the time in order to win. But why can’t we get 50 to 75% of that on a consistent basis as his standard of play? How can the John’s be this high and the lows be as low (and as consistent) as they are. Just baffling and makes the consistent poor play all the more frustrating.

As soon as 1 OC figures it out everyone will copy it. Right now everyone is taking advantage of a run game if they have one. Until more teams are able to stop it it will be that way another season or two. Nows the time to build an offense everyone else wants to copy.

I honestly get more nervous when my team is favored especially when we’re favored at home by 13.5 points lol.

I think you are comparing a comeback win versus a game winning drive. If you are down in the 1st half until you score on 1 drive that wins you a 7-3 game how do you decide if that's a comeback win or a game winning drive? Is it both? You stat nerds give me a headache. I need a beer.

The only way to stop a guy like that is a nasty pass rush.

Hence the reason we have to upgrade the room regardless. His poo play to start the season has been going on for 3 seasons now. Thats a trend and the team has to prepare for it

Elite speed matters but you have to have hands too. Ted Ginn was the perfect example of this for the Panthers. Elite route running was always AT's game and he was as fast as an angry turtle but damn he could get open and his hands were glue. TMac can move, but like all receivers, he does best when you can get it on his hands in stride.

Sad part is, even if he plays at a higher level for the rest of the season, we still don't know what he'll look like at the beginning of the next one.