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Yep. Way too early to evaluate anybody at this point, especially quarterbacks.

Comparing some tool making racist jokes to the mere existence of criticism of a pro athlete making 40 million dollars is the most absurdly outrageous thing I've ever seen here. That is not from a sane mind.

I'm hoping to at least go 1-16. That's how much confidence I have in the 2025 season, and even that seems unrealistic the more I think about it.

Stevie Wonder could see Dalton is done. Doesn't make either of the other two or Hooker much or really at all better. Just a matter of going with the younger option that still has room for some semblance of growth.

We don't have much to go on other than a handful of preseason plays and whatever's regurgitated from media folks. Mitchell caught a wide-open, WIDE-open TD pass, which was awesome, but Evans does the same thing in that instance. Either way, I've for the umpteenth consecutive year set the bar at hopefully a record as good as 1-16.

#1 overall picks have to be better than top half at their position.

This season is about two things that impact the Ws and Ls 1. Can Young be, or ever be, a top 15 qb 2. Can Evero be a decent DC my personal feeling is time may be up for one and the other’s time should’ve been up before season start regardless of my personal feels, I’m glad football is back and hope to be proved wrong every Sunday

The point was, largely it was cool to be critical of select players all off season (XL) and not be questioned about your fandom, being negative…..but select folks react different if done to Bryce. and if XL had an army of defenders (which he didn’t) there would be plenty of “derailment” as you say. But people largely accepted you should be able to be critical of XL. Therefore the good and bad were BOTH largely accepted convo. I have no clue about your joke analogy. Racist jokes suck. Jokes about race can be funny. I do know some people view it all as the same thing.

I am not sure that would necessarily hold up to a large data sample and some in depth analysis. It's certainly an interesting theory. IMO(anecdotally), the better backups are usually older backups that were above average NFL starters for long periods of time. That and just guys that are always fringe bottom third starter, top third backups. Flacco, Dalton are current examples of the former. I think guys like Tyrod Taylor and Jacoby Brissett are good examples of the latter. The issue with Lance/Richardson/Wilson is that they were ultimately big busts. So you have to bank on them being the type of player that can handle that, battle back and make a decent NFL career. I am not sure I would say that is the majority of those type of players. Winston is just a different thing. He is an old school gunslinger that is pretty inflexible when it comes to playing style. If you don't have an old school offense tailored to a Brett Favre type gunslinger AND have a defense elite enough to win when he is turning the ball over like gangbusters.....it's tough for him to consistently win games. It will be damn fun to watch but the W's are gonna be rare.

I disagree if the discussion is this season. Certainly moving towards the next couple of years, Dalton will decline further and perhaps they will eventually pass him. Allen/Heinicke would be pretty far down the top 32 backup QB list. Heinicke would most likely be outside the top 32, TBH. I certainly hope we don't live to see any actual Hendon Hooker starts. I don't really want to have to be doing the "I fuging told you guys he sucked" thing while actually having to watch him suck and lose games. That's possibly when I am going to opt to watch some other NFL games.

Aren't they both on active roster?

Well, Clemson just couldn’t afford to lose their #1 WR that early in the game. overall, thoughts are generally the same. This season was going to come down to two things….can they run the ball and stop the run. I thought the D was actually okay enough. Cade going to catch the heat but…. It’s the run game. Lead RB had 5 carries (9 RB carries overall) in a game that was tied 10-10 in the 4th. Cade ain’t that good enough to carry a game like that and be out in that spot. still think they will figure out the run but that was the worst part of a tough week 1 matchup. Zero time to figure that weakness out Clemson can afford that loss. It’s a an ACC championship world for the ACC primarily

Yes, and that’s why Evans is still on the roster and not the practice squad. J Mitchell looks more game ready as of now.

James Mitchell has been in the league for years and Evans is a rookie.

James Mitchell looked better than Evans to me.

Was trying to remember where this came from and then it hit me... buddy of mine that was recruited to play LT for a D1 school (he quickly realized he did not want to do that grind and ended up grinding to be a pharmacist instead). He was telling me how it was insane to have assignments and then these pitbulls in front of you on the DL are literally hopping and rolling over one another to change where they're lined up. Dudes in the trenches are built different... not quite as crazy as the animals that love special teams, those dudes are crazy crazy

People hating XL are just as stupid as people hating BY but I do have to give the former credit where credit is due: they didn't spend the entire offseason shitting up threads and derailing them like the latter did. This reminds me so much of hack comedians complaining that they can't tell racist jokes anymore or they'll get cancelled rather than just admitting that they were never as funny as they thought they were.

Yea, offenses usually take time to get in sync vs. the organized chaos that is defense

I think cutting Renfrow at the time was actually a move to try to increase Thielen's trade value. They are essentially the same player and having them both on the roster slightly deminishes their value.

In my view, and this is not based on any evidence beyond memory, the best backups are those who were drafted, thrown into the fire too early, then discarded as a bust. Some really improve once they have been given a chance to lick their wounds, watch, and work with the QB room for a year or two. I think there is something to the Parcells (I think) formula: "Bill Parcells had a seven-point "formula" or checklist for drafting a quarterback: be a three-year starter, a college senior, a graduate, have a minimum of 30 starts and 23 wins, maintain a 2:1 touchdown-to-interception ratio, and achieve at least a 60% completion percentage." Having said that, Parcells' comment was long before the new college offenses and portal jumping, but the basic formula frames what it takes. So players like Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, Zach Wilson, Jameis Winston (to a degree), are TYPES that defend my position. Richardson has not hit rock bottom and rebounded yet, and I am not sure Wilson will ever amount to anything beyond his 2020 BYU season, but this kind of player knows what it is like to be the "the guy" and they know the weaknesses in their game that other teams exploited. Of course there are exceptions etc., but this is simply my preference. Derek Anderson is a good example. In college, he completed 50% of his passes and threw 57 interceptions vs. 79 TDs. As a backup, he was not bad. I think Dalton is a decent backup, fwiw. Anderson actually won 20 games as a pro (vs. 29 losses) and when he started for the Panthers, he was 2-2 (2014 and 2016) and completed 67.5% of his passes.

Was really a dumb and slightly costly decision to cut Renfrow. They could have just as easily carried him while the AT trade was completed and cut someone like James Mitchell. No one would claim him off waivers and even if they did they could have just claimed another worthless tight end if they desperately needed to carry 4. I think Dan thinks he's really smart by doing stuff like this but in reality he cost tepper and the cap 2 million dollars for 0 reason.

The hubris when discussing backup QB's here is both interesting and amusing. I guess that's the state of our franchise now eh? But if I could only choose between 3 choices to be the Panthers QB2 (Allen Heinicke or Dalton). Andy Dalton would be the last option every single time.

I fully agree.