frankw

I agree with you. We'll get some answers from camp and certainly all these guys will be getting a good amount of reps in preseason.

I think we should all be able to come to an agreement that Canales Bryce and the receivers need to establish a consistent and formidable deep passing game this season. The ingredients and the recipe are all there ready for some gourmet cooking. No excuses.

I have to be honest. The timing lack of clarity and confusion around all this only a few months after signing him to an extension some argued was an overpay is not giving off the vibes of a very competent organization. Hopefully they clear things up.

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That is one phenomenally crafted obscure 90's PC game I have sadly never heard of. Reminds me a bit of a combination of two 90's films "Brainscan" and "Idle hands". But kudos and respect to folks bringing attention to retro classics like these that were far ahead of their time.

Based on the division from the early 2000's-2010 I would agree 2013-2015 were down years in some ways in comparison. But even that is still tougher than what we've got now. Look I'll admit Baker Mayfield surprised me and I've always said he's had the phsyical talent but he still has to prove he can sustain the level of play he's been showing. Even there were times last year he looked like hot garbage Baker. That game against us in Charlotte he was putrid. So don't get me wrong I'm in no way saying this division is a free ride. I'm just saying hot and cold Baker Mayfield and other unproven QB's on rosters with numerous question marks are not much of a comparison to Drew Brees/Sean Payton and Matt Ryan/Julio Jones or Tom Brady/Gronk.

2015 Panthers are a good example that anything can happen given that when Kelvin Benjamin went down nobody had us pegged as a playoff team. But we did win a lot of close games. There were also times where luck clearly went our way. But there were also other times where leaders on the team stepped up and made big time plays at crucial moments. And to be clear that was in what was IMO a much much more competitive iteration of the NFC and certainly our division. If the Panthers can't at least compete for a shot at the playoffs in these circumstances then everyone involved should be embarrassed.

The love/hate relationship with PFF here over the years amuses me greatly. But I do appreciate this content. Training camp should be fun.

I'm glad we can find common ground on these issues. I think most of the folks in the fanbase are burned out from not only the losing but the same discussions. This is a put up or shut up year in many ways for sure. Hopefully things go relatively according to plan and come December we are talking about further building around our core and competing for the playoffs in the not so distant future instead of bickering about why this or that was a failure yet again. Here's to hoping

It's the time of year where fluff is in the air. Regardless I do appreciate his attitude and if we are to become a dominant level defense again we will certainly need more of this.

I had a huge response typed up for this that I lost entirely so I'm starting from scratch which is annoying but sh*t happens. I think Purdy is a high end game manager. I've made my thoughts known. I think he is talented and is at his best in the areas of timing rhythm and accuracy. When playing within the structure and scheme of that Shanahan offense and the talent around him he can be really good. Where his limitations become pronounced and more evident is when he has to go toe to toe with dynamic elite QB's. Which obviously isn't a problem just limited to him. But he's been given almost 200 million dollars guaranteed so that's an issue. I think the 49ers will struggle to get back to the mountain top with his new contract looming large and certainly they will face a very steep climb to somehow winning another championship. As far as Bryce within the pocket there have been numerous discussions here and even video circulated of him bouncing around the pocket like a pogo surveying the field or having both feet off the ground to deliver a pass. It exists even if you or someone else doesn't want it to. And I get why. But it's up to Bryce and Canales to figure out how to not only get his footwork where it needs to be and keep it there but to build a scheme around Bryce and what he does best and fit his limitations into a formidable offense. Look brother we can get into the weeds about this but I will respectfully say I do not believe you are being consistent here. You have gone out of your way as one of the key voices complaining about how striking the lack of quality talent and coaching was around Bryce Young in 2023. You've also been a key voice who has gone out of your way to sprinkle sunshine and rainbows on just about any discussion around every Panthers player and anything Panthers in general. Which is fine and can be a good thing. It's not for everyone but still more power to you. But it's jarring to see that and then you here now in what I can only describe as downplaying the talent around Bryce when it comes time to shield him from what you perceive to be unfair criticism which others such as myself would argue is not only fair for a first round pick but wholly realistic given the resources we surrendered to be able to draft him. The current FO have made an undisputed effort to build around Bryce given the aforementioned limitations created by the trade. There is never going to be a time where Bryce or any other Panthers QB is going to have elite or all pro level talent across the entire offense. But the FO has put talent around him. If you want to say that this is young and undeveloped talent in some areas that's fine but they are building around him. I'm going to be honest with you I cannot recall ever hearing this "big time throw" metric being mentioned in past conversations about Panthers QB's. I mean if Bryce or any other QB is making franchise QB or fringe elite QB level throws we can recognize that with our own eyes. We have seen this from Bryce which was a relief and very welcomed sight but now it's up to him to prove he can sustain that because in fairness we've seen some pretty impressive passes from past QB's who ultimately didn't pan out who were arguably more phsyically talented than Bryce. 3rd down conversion and turnover worthy plays are certainly something to hone in on. Bryce did improve in the redzone in that final stretch of games. However one key area to keep an eye on will be passing plays to the middle of the field. That's been an issue for us and Bryce both with turnovers and with bad moments from our receivers with bad drops. We'll have to see what Dave Canales has planned for all of this within his scheme. I don't expect miracles but I do expect a competent formidable offense that is enjoyable to watch in 2025. That's the minimum expectation and I do not believe it is at all unreasonable.

The Falcons win was a fantastic way to end the season and I think just about every Panthers fan would agree the team the coaching staff and particularly Bryce Young were impressive. We really needed that. Credit where it's due. At the same time. Now we have to establish it wasn't just a flash in the pan. We had one of those earlier in the season against the Raiders. As a tortured Panthers fan I have to acknowledge that. I know you're joking but in all seriousness I don't think the QB sneak is something for us to be concerned about in general but I would be lying to myself if I did not acknowledge that looking back at one particular game last season where we continually trotted out Eddie Pinero on 4th and short on the opponents side of the field we could use some creativity in those situations and it's also a matter of predictability. As time goes on it's something for Canales to work on and figure out. Especially with our kicker situation as it stands.

We've literally seen him hop around the pocket to survey the field in multiple occurrences. Defenses have this on tape. Cam and QB's like him built the way he was height and strength wise could get by on those natural gifts in their prime. Bryce Young is unequivocally going to have to go above and beyond with his footwork in order to carve out not just a long career but an elite career worthy of a top overall draft selection. We should be able to wholeheartedly agree with one another on that. Intermediate sideline throws without placing the ball out of bounds where the receiver has to contort themselves or make an absurd acrobatic catch for it to be a completion. And yes developing a better chemistry in the deep passing game with his receivers to avoid miscues. Both areas will need to see improvement if the young offense is to develop the way we hope in 2025. And we don't necessarily need to be winning mind you. But development of the supporting cast requires this from Bryce. We have invested a ton of capital in the offensive line. We've invested heavily in WR. We've invested in our backfield. We've invested in TE. We've got a young up and coming offensive minded head coach. The expectation should be for our redzone efficiency to improve significantly. That is not just on Bryce Young. But at the end of the day it will always begin and end with him more often than not. It's always been that way and that's just the nature of the position in this league. And not for nothing but before we drafted Bryce Young nobody was going around here saying we need elite play across the board and top shelf coaching for him to be effective. His biggest selling point was his ability to succeed off script and make something out of nothing. We're certainly going to have to see that come to fruition. Now we wait.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a part of his game it should be present yes. But expecting 500/10 in the rushing category is not sustainable IMO. All it's going to take is a defender to be willing to sacrifice a penalty or a fine to send a message just as the Falcons did with Sam Darnold. And even as big and durable as Cam was defenses eventually started to try to send a message to him too. We have to be realistic about not putting our QB at unnecessary risk. Especially given the fact we aren't even willing to run a QB sneak with him. We've also invested a good bit in our backfield that's what they're there for. And furthermore ultimately whatever QB tier Bryce Young ends up landing in over the course of his career it is going to be defined by what he does as a passer not his rushing ability. That's all I'm saying.

His footwork has been discussed many times over related to not just within the pocket but the quality of his drop backs and how while his receivers have been an issue his own footwork has created issues with his receivers. It is a mutual give and take dynamic after all. As far as his deep passing goes I will happily admit I saw some very impressive long throws from Bryce later in the season and I said so at the time and I'm still saying so now. That doesn't mean that there still aren't issues and beyond some instances of him flat out missing receivers deep that he knows he needs to get corrected I think there are still some throws to the sideline that defenses are going to test Bryce on early and often and until he can prove he can beat defenses on those throws consistently they will play him the same way. As far as talk of Bryce being top ten and the metrics that define that different people are going to have different answers and I've said before after the conclusion of the 2024 season that I'm going to try to put yardage aside in some cases and just focus on what Bryce is doing both between the 20's moving the ball and how our redzone scoring percentage is looking. The biggest thing I'm looking for this season is scoring points. Not just field goals. Touchdowns. If the offense is moving consistently and reaching the end zone more often than not and not squandering drives and settling for field goals then I am going to be content for the time being. I do not expect miracles this season. I expect development and competiveness on both sides of the ball but particularly the offense trending upward given the investments we've made. And no blowout losses. I don't think that's an unreasonable ask do you agree? 🫡

I agree about this offseason being just as typical as years past where we tend to think we "won" because of process blue colored glasses. But I think there is a good amount of talent on this roster. The issue begins with the fact that it is overall a very young roster now. But I do think that is a good thing if you ponder years ago where we would field rosters made up of aging veterans previous coaches were overly loyal to even to a fault. In that aspect at a minimum I appreciate that we are trying to develop young players with potential. Now we just need to see if Canales and company are up to the task. As far as Tepper goes all I can do is hope he and his wife continue to fall back and let the football people run things even if there are a some bumps in the road along the way. But I share your concern that Mr. Tepper is unlikely to be able to resist meddling for very long. We'll see.

We both know there's more that goes into batted passes than just the height of the QB. Most people here have readily acknowledged this and there were numerous discussions about it before we drafted Young. But if you are presenting a POV that Bryce's height hasn't tied to issues with his footwork then there's nothing anyone is going to be able to say to sway you and you know this. Even beyond the footwork I recall a redzone play where Bryce couldn't see around his right tackle at all where a receiver was waiting practically alone in the end zone for a touchdown. There are real world circumstances that are going to show up over the course of the upcoming season and it's up to Bryce and Dave Canales to make adjustments and do anything they can to mitigate negative instances and yes that begins with Bryce's footwork again. Thanks for your time. Have a nice weekend.

I would say the extremes from both camps in these conversations have to do with the blurring of the fact Bryce is a first overall pick and the expectations for that draft slot fair or not far exceed just being a top 20-25 starter amongst your peers. Regardless. All logical Panthers fans want him to be the answer.

Are you arguing that his height deficiencies and footwork within the pocket have not been a present issue clearly seen on his game tape particularly in the games he struggled in? Because that's simply denying what everyone in this fanbase who have watched the games have seen. It's interesting how hardline BY fans here quickly and effortlessly pivot from whailing about being victimized to becoming the aggressor and hurling out allegations of bias and hatred. And at the end of the day while Bryce Young clearly improved significantly from the first two games of the season the reality of the situation is he still finished 42nd in yards per pass attempt behind Mac Jones and tied with Caleb Williams and 38th in passing yards per game behind the likes of Gardner Minshew Aidan O'Connell Drake Maye and Will Levis. Furthermore it took Bryce Young 23 games to surpass Panthers legend Kyle Allen's 13 games worth of passing yardage in 2019. So if your argument is he became a head and shoulders better passer over the course of the second half of the season the reality is we're still waiting to see that growth this season. And there is nothing controversial or vitriolic about saying so from the mind of a rational observer.

I mean as far as his size goes it's all over his tape bouncing up and down on his toes in and around the pocket trying to see the field and defenses know this as well as we do but if folks here want to live in never never land and pretend it's not a thing that's their prerogative. Even our head coach has made it a key focal point to get his footwork under control. But it's still something Bryce is going to be tested on early and often no matter how many keystrokes anyone here commits to the narrative it isn't an issue.

Well with back to back road games to open the season again we really can't afford a "slow start" at least not for the psyche of the fanbase that is already at rock bottom from years of losing. I think that will depend on our approach to preseason this go around. But I do agree the makings of a culture change could be big for us. At the same time we heard talk of this last year and then we got the doors blown off multiple times. I can agree with you it's best to try to maintain perspective until we get closer to the midway point of the season. The main things I want to see early on even if we aren't necessarily winning is spark and toughness from the offense and defense and at least keeping games close.

It's actually interesting you mention Richardson because I've seen it suggested here Bryce will have 500 or more rushing yards and 5-10 rushing touchdowns this year. And if big Anthony Richardson can get hurt carrying the rock what's that tell you about the practicality of thinking Bryce won't?

"Well you see if you remove this terrible game that terrible game this other terrible game and then focus on these games you'll see he's actually one of the better QB's in the league and he's actually as good as Jayden Daniels". My god this place is delusional. I love it.

Where this conversation goes south continuously and becomes bitter and contentious is when the discussion involves his "improvement". It is not hyperbole to say we started out the first two games of the season with some of the worst QB play in franchise history. We're talking amongst Jimmy Clausen. So when someone comes in and says Bryce played at such a high level in the last stretch of games he even surpassed Cam Newton as a sophomore there's not going to be any logical conversation to be had at that juncture. We can talk in a reality based context or we can talk in an echo chamber context. Only one is going to foster productive dialogue. Anyways what's done is done. We need to focus on the now. Now Bryce has an offensive line we've invested a ton of salary cap space in. He has a formidable backfield. He has a significantly improved WR room including 2 first round picks the last 2 years one being an 8th overall pick. He has one of the better TE rooms we've had in years with actual young promising talent instead of jags like Ian Thomas taking up salary cap space. He has a young up and coming offensive head coach. Honestly this is probably the best situation any QB has had entering the season since Delhomme in 2003. The foundation is there for any QB worth his salt to showcase high end franchise QB ability going forward.

Sounds like some NBA players. Morgan has taken a big gamble with Center. Unnecessarily IMO. We'll see how it plays out.