WhoKnows

I really hope we see significant impact year 1. The whole year 3 WR thing is a fantasy football thing that’s more of a myth now. It’s rare to have a Davante Adams type progression although he still had over 400 yards in years 1 and 2. Also, I hate to be a Debbi downer but I hate when I see the comment about being excited to see what full NFL offseason workout plan will do. Seems like that gets said when we have another rookie that can’t crack this talent laden roster we have. Leggette had 5 years at an SEC school and is going to be 24 in 4 months. He should be pretty far into development by now.

The same worries were around with TMJ and Mingo and the 3 players just brought up as slow developers are 42, 45 and 46 years old. Rookie WRs have been shining or not shining year 1 for 5-10 years now. Believe me, we want Leggette to shine this year, otherwise he has to be a big exception to not be a bust.

Relax man, it’s just true. A 23 year old rookie should be more ready not a late bloomer. It’s an absolute fact that colleges are producing right away impact WRs now. He really needs to show out this year. Even if it’s the second half. If he doesn’t do much this year, it’s not likely that he’ll amount to much as a 24-25 year old in year 2/3. It’s a harsh truth that first round WRs develop fast or don’t develop at all with just a few exceptions. Also, no disrespect to Mr. Scot, but he’s been way off quite a bit lately. He got so hung up on Rhule that he was a big fan of Fitterer and giving him more time and absolutely loved the Reich and co hiring. There are some negative Nellie’s in here, I’ll admit that, but most of us want to have a good team again and we don’t just defer to our draft picks are future studs. Our drafting has been terrible for years so when a bunch of other rookie WRs are getting positive news and our guy has done very little, drops the one pass he gets and seemingly can’t beat out TMJ and Mingo, it’s not surprising that we are worried and it’s really not preseason knee jerk reactions. It feels like every year since 2018, the same excuses for draft picks, outside of a few of Marty 1st round picks, are being made. What you posted is identical to what we read about last year with Mingo and the past few years of TMJ.

Timing was a little off but still a nice 50 yards in the air. Wasn’t too late enough to be an incompletion. Didn’t look like a duck or lack of arm strength so not sure it proves the point I’m sure you are trying to make. Honestly, if Young made the exact same throw, I don’t think I’d be thinking he lacks arm strength.

Still can’t believe we were stupid enough to trade CMC and Moore for half the deal the Rams gave us for Burns. Heck, cap wise it was basically a wash too. SMH.

No, it’s not. I’m not going back to long ago days, but I looked at 1st round WRs (not top 5 since another person mentioned that) and the past 5 or 6 drafts prior to this one were pretty clear. If you didn’t pop (not crazy but 700 yards, i.e. real impact) year 1, it was rare that you would. We are in pass central time and a time where WRs are coming out of college ready to transition. Feel free to go look and let me know if I’m wrong because I already posted a complete breakdown in another thread.

He won’t. Just watching the kickoff returns and it should be obvious that Moore can’t be the second returner (most teams have two guys out there). Moore went back on a ball and caught it. He had to stop and then go and he hit to the 14. ISM catches balls in stride like they teach OFs in baseball when they have to throw out a guy on a SF fly. You could tell the difference immediately. If we cut I for Moore for returns then it’s just another feather in the cap of crappy personnel decisions we need to stop making. Neither Moore, nor ISM should be getting significant WR snaps so special teams is the only decision.

Yep. I hate to say it, but unless he pops this year, it’s a really bad sign. I took a look at the past 5 or so years at 1st round WRs (most outside top 5 or so) and most excel early if they are now really good WRs and the ones that are considered busts now did not pop early. I’m rooting for him but there are very few WRs that don’t pop (like 700 yards) and end up being really good. Is he Davante Adams? Maybe, but lots more Jalen Raegor’s that don’t pop.

His accuracy and decision making is for poo. If he was any good, Clemson could have won with him. FSU isn’t even calling deep stuff. He can throw it hard and far but he’s like PJ Walker.

Pretty sure this is his 5th year. He’s started 4 years at 3 schools and backed up Lawrence during COVID including a few starts when Lawrence had COVID. He sucked at Clemson. We would have beaten Georgia in 2021 when they won it all, if not for DJ’s pick 6 in range of a FG.

Dude, I’ve been singing this song for years. We didn’t get good value for any of our trades in part because our personnel people had no clue and thought we had some talent and in part because we waited and lost value. This may sound weird but if Young doesn’t improve enough to be a playoff QB then I’m trading Horn. If Yoinh has a miraculous turn then I see us keeping Horn. We can’t win without a solid QB so as you said, paying Horn through the nose is burning cap to rollover until we can compete and get a good QB.

CMC missed no time his first three years and his 2nd injury year he came back and we shelved him after we lost huge to Miami and Marty start building up his excuses. If we had a chance to make the playoffs, he would have played. I remember that game and still don't know when he got hurt. Horn hasn’t finished a single season yet. We need to see that first.

Yep. I really hope we aren’t already discussing this unless we get a big discount for taking a risk. If we are paying him on his potential now with 2 years left on his 1st round rookie deal, that’s a terrible mistake. If he wants guaranteed money now then there’s got to be a discount for a guy who’s been hurt all 3 years and only played in 40% of the games. Personally, I’d want to see him finish this year. The biggest issue with Horn’s missed time is that he’s been hurt at the end of every season. Even if you are able to play 14/15 games, it doesn’t matter if you could never make the playoffs, if god willing we make it again this century.

Sure thing. You gave examples for Young that started with Herbert and I pointed out that while the new coach fits, he was hurt. You then changed it to a bunch of vets who I agree don’t need preseason time. I then mentioned the first and 2nd year QBs who are new just based on being in 1st/2nd years as better examples and showed how Young was the outlier this year. Seems like a logical progression following your changes. Also, neither Hurts nor Mayfield has a different HC this year and both of their OCs have been NFL OCs before. Young has a new HC and a 1st time OC. Even though they are slightly similar, Young is still in a situation where more reps make sense, especially considering his youth and new OL, new HC, 2 new key WRs and an OC who’s never been an OC.

I agree. It’s going to take a few years unless Young has a miraculous awakening. I’m not betting on that so we better start drafting well. Also, I’m like you and I realize how bad the complete roster is. It still amazes me that Fitterer basically traded away 2 complete drafts of picks and he was only here for 3 years. That doesn’t even count the picks he missed getting for Burns. It’s remarkable to be that bad. The chance of doing that bad on every call and not making any good draft picks is probably close to the odds of winning the lottery. Even a coin flip/let the mock draft pick your picks for you would have done much better.

Honestly, for this team, I’d just like to see them get as many reps as possible. In the end it likely doesn’t matter because we aren’t a contender but when every other rookie/2nd year QB (with a chance to start) has already gotten reps, it makes you wonder why Young is getting hidden again. He barely got any work last year with Reich, we remember the same discussion because Stroud was getting lengthy snaps. It’s kind of scary that injuries are keeping our QB from getting real snaps. Just frustrating because our beat down by Atlanta last year clearly showed an ill prepared QB.

While I agree, who else is there to interview outside of Moton and Brown that didn’t just join the team?

Biggest mistake was Fitterer. That led to the personnel mistakes that left us with a team that was lucky to not go 0-17.

Not if we have a great draft around a QB. Texans didn’t just get Stroud and Ryans last year. They also got Will Anderson and Tank Dell. They also had bulked up in prior drafts due to the Tunsil and Watson trades. We did the opposite and traded away tons of draft picks because we had a stupid GM so we need a 2023 Texans like draft and probably another one like that to make up for not having young talent from trades.

Same thing got discussed last year. Young barely saw action while the others got a lot more reps. We talked about it in here that we didn’t get why Young wasn’t getting more reps when it looked like he needed them. Suffice it to say that Young is an outlier when looking at the preseason time of the last two draft classes which contain 9 1st round QBs and Levis. Seems like that’s a substantial set of examples.

What did I say that was wrong? I’m not moving any goal posts. You were using veteran QBs who’ve played for the same coaches and then pointed to Herbert with a new coach and you didn’t realize he was hurt all preseason until Monday. Personally, I’ve never said that I think sitting vet QBs is a problem. I just gave you a list of Young’s closest peers and showed that Young was the only one not taking snaps and he has a brand new coach and a brand new OL. Sorry you couldn’t argue against valid points.

No. If injuries are something you are trying to avoid or lessen the impact (on the regular season), you don’t use only the last preseason game to get reps. First, when other teams play their starters, they do it in weeks 1 and 2 so better chance of real reps. Second, if someone rolls an ankle, when do you want that to happen? Preseason weeks 1 and 2 give you more recovery time than week 3. In days gone by, no starters ever played the last week of preseason. I’m all for reps when we have brand new OLs and coaches every single year, but the smart choice is to play starters early when they have a higher chance to play other starters and have more chance to heal if there’s any minor injuries.

I think the win total is less important than how the team plays. Last year, there was a lot of preseason talk and we saw exactly what we were worried about. The team looked unprepared and the QB we thought needed reps didn’t look like he was ready to be an NFL QB. If we start out 0-4 but are competitive, scoring points and look like a prepared team, no one will mention preseason. If we are 0-4 and barely scoring, getting lots of penalties and making bad decisions, preseason should be brought up because we should’ve gotten more reps in to starters. There is one caveat to this. If we look poorly prepared, it might not be the HC’s actual fault. Maybe our talent level is just that bad and until we get a better team and QB, we’ll look bad. Unfortunately, for an optimistic type coach, there’s no way to know.

Hence playing starters week 1/2, not the last week. Did Cam miss any real game time?

Honestly, that’s what it feels like or maybe realization that the team isn’t really ready for week 1. If you were worried about injuries, you wouldn’t start your starters this week. Back in 16 game/4 preseason, no starters played in that week 4 preseason game. Playing starters this week seems silly because even small injury could impact real games. If someone pulls a muscle in week 1 of preseason you can shut them down and make sure they are ready week 1 of the real games. If we were going to play starters for only 1 games, week 1 or 2 makes more sense than week 3.