WhoKnows

PFF rankings don’t translate well. Greg Little case in point. This seems like a big reach if 43 is his best ranking.

Maybe. We said no to Tre Smith in the 6th round due to medical concerns and where did that get us? Horn had no medical concerns and the one we didn’t take of the two has played way more.

Damn, Burton on day 5? What’s that, Waterboy? I mean post day 3 and into day 4 is UDFAs.

Yeah, with our luck lately, we’ll see an announcement like the Panthers have traded pick 33 for a 2024 4th, two 2024 5ths, two 2025 4ths and bag of popcorn.

1 week and 4 days from Panther draft time. Not sure if I’m going to bother watching day 1 or just view the picks Friday morning.

This is why I don’t like trading down. Fitterer loved giving away day 1 and day 2 picks and we got no impact starters. We don’t need starters, we need above average/plus/great starters or we will dwell at the bottom of the league. Right now we have Brown, Moton, Hunt, maybe Horn and a short term Clowney. There are a few around average starters and the rest are all below average to borderline bad. We desperately need to add to the first bucket so trading down to get more players lessens the odds of getting those plus/elite guys.

Let’s be honest guys. Strength and conditioning doesn’t matter when you at the bottom of the barrel talent wise. Like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree. Unless we are getting better picks like 39 for a 2025 1st, no thanks. We’ve seen how our idiot GM traded back to cover his horrid trades and we just got lessor players overall. Just because we don’t have a 2025 2nd doesn’t mean we have to trade way back to get one. We need impact above average to elite starters. We have 33, 39 and next year’s 1st. We can’t blow those picks so let’s get the top players we need. Hopefully, we don’t F it up and actually get additional starters in the 3rd+.

When are numbers just numbers in threads here. There’s always intention behind posts of stats.

100%. It’s why we’ve blown our cap every year since Marty got back and haven’t had a winning season in 6 years. We haven’t had a good draft since CMC, Moton, Samuel and Butker. Unfortunately, we also have idiots running the ship who legitimately thought we had a good talented team. Amazing that we traded away 3 of 5 actually solid players considering how bad our drafting has been.

This is silly. $200M of that was two deals. Does it matter when two multi-year deals started? Browns deal doesn’t even really start until the 2025 season. The only deal I think doesn’t help us in the future is Clowney. If it’s not to prove or help out the offense, then it needs to be long term beneficial. Clowney will not see a playoff game with us so improving the D doesn’t help us long term.

This is not 2023, there is no TE worth pick 33 or 39 aside from Bowers who’s going way before.

Stop spreading cap hit. All that means is we would be going all in again when we can’t compete. We have him under contract for 2 more years, there is 0 reason to extend him now unless you are trying to contend. We are nowhere close to contending so there is no reason to extend to free up 2024 cap. Have we learned nothing from the past few years? Our team is bottom tier talent wise right now. Making more room this year for free agents is a complete waste of future cap space and let’s be honest more wins makes our draft picks worse. Look at what extra wins with shitty teams has gotten us: 2019 - Meaningless week 17 win and we get D Brown (no offense to him) instead of Herbert 2020 - Meaningless win over Haskins a week before his release and we get Horn instead of the 3rd pick where SF would have showered us with 3 1sts+. 2022 - Meaningless wins get us to pick 9 where we mortgage our future to move up 8 spots It is so frustrating to see these suggestions, not just yours, because the cap splurges on shitty players and trades, in part to winning that extra feel good game, have crippled this team where we are all but guaranteed to have an 8-10+ stretch of losing records. I’m still not feeling great about Morgan yet because he came from the same organization that didn’t get this for 6 years of losing so far.

When people say pay cut, it often makes me wonder if they understand cap. We are “paying” Moron $17M per year, period. That’s his deal. The cap hit is $30M now because we used bonuses to make his early cap hits way lower than $17M a year. His cap hit for 2021-2023 was $25M total even though he was paid $51M (by his average). That’s $26M we saved that’s hitting in 2024/2025. We can’t do anything but push that out. We aren’t a contender so like others have said, let’s eat it while we suck so we aren’t tempted to sign a couple guys to go from 4 wins to 5. Leave the future cap alone so we could afford a big splash when it matters.

Very much so. It’s why we lost value/talent in every draft since our last “good” draft back in 2017. Hurney 2.0 and Fitterer had locks that they had to draft regardless of value and that’s why we are where we are.

That was an all time TE talent draft. We missed the boat.

Agreed. If after this draft we’ve taken a TE in the 2nd and last year was our WR in the 2nd, it will prove we haven’t learned anything. Last year was the draft to go TE in the 2nd and this year is the draft to go WR in the 2nd.

Kiper put out a mock draft today and he sure doesn’t know that the Panthers aren’t that lucky. He has us trading 33 to the Giants for 47 and next year’s 2nd. Not a bad trade since we need talent, but I laughed at who he took for us at 39 and 47, almost felt like it was one of those this will never happen picking Rome Odunze at 33 type mocks. 39 - Ladd McConkey 47 - Jackson Powers-Johnson Right. If we walk out of the draft with those 2 and the Giants 2025 2nd, I’d drop to the floor and pray to the football gods to say thank you. I’ll also brace myself for the football gods to show us why they dropped and then laugh at us again.

Umm, he’s been the assistant GM for three years and I think Person had the article it, but he played a part in getting to where we are. I still blame Fitterer the most but Dan was his right hand man. Let’s hope he learned a lot but until we have some good drafts on the field (not just paper), we haven’t done anything.

This feels like a trap draft to me. Robinson’s measurables at the combine weren’t good. He was slow. JPJ is likely gone. Legette to me feels like another of the same that hasn’t worked and Wilson is 24 in 2 weeks with a very bad injury history. I look at this draft and feel like I’m a year or two we’d be disappointed with the real results.

He was right there although Schneider was the guy. Schneider has been quoted about how he was behind the Wilson selection. I think Fitterer took a lot from the Seahawks leading to Horn (legion of boom) and thinking a small Young would be fine, but clearly on his own he’s not a great scout.

No need to keep blaming Rhule for 2022. The 2022 draft was all Fitterer. Rhule was fired early in the season and was forced to change coordinators. We had tons of threads in here from some of our top posters about how Fitterer had taken the off-season reigns. Rhule isn’t going to be in charge of a draft while on the hot seat and this forum posted articles saying that. Fitterer trade ups in 2022/2023 were almost identical and Rhule isn’t sitting on the hot seat with Corral as his guy. I’m sure he asked for Mayfield.

I think there is a strong correlation but you draft 7 guys and you have 30 visits and as you said there’s a lot of reasons for a visit. Look at last year’s visits: https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/lists/panthers-top-30-visits-tracker-2023-draft/ The whole theme was around our 1st and 2nd picks. Both Young and Mingo were visits so we had a 100% correlation but again there were a ton of prospects we didn’t take in the 1st/2nd that we had in for visits. Some were likely gone before we could take them and some we just made horrible mistakes on. Unfortunately, it was clear who we were taking and how incompetent Fitterer was. This year’s visit list likely contains 1 or 2 of the guys we take at 33/39. It would be shocking if neither of those two picks came in for visits. I could see 33 be a surprise due to someone falling way too far but I’d guarantee that one of our visits is pick 33 or 39. The correlation is strong when there seem to be at least 2-3 picks every year from the visit list. This is a bit more of a wildcard year with no 1st because there are more and more options/visit guys picked by other teams. Maybe having 2 2nds close together makes it less of a wildcard because we seem to have a lot of day 2 (and 3) guys in our visit list with 3 picks between 33 and 65.

Just like @Jackie Lee’s example, both situations ended with success due to two (possibly three) things: 1 - Great Drafts - We haven’t seen Houston’s second draft, but 2023 was like Seattle’s great couple drafts 2 - Great rookie QBs 3 - Because of 1 and 2, it’s a chicken and the egg scenario but there has to be some portion of solid coaching as well to mold that young roster. Hard to know how much credit because those drafts were fantastic and those teams went from mediocre talent to seriously talented right away. My stance is still that until we have some solid to great drafting, we won’t be a contender even in our crap division. We need to hit this year so we can see the sparks and also most importantly prove whether Bryce can be the guy or we have to move on.

No one has been able to make him a star and he’s never shown in 3 years that he has the talent. There’s tons of WRs in the past that looked good with multiple QBs and schemes. A WR that “can play” as you said would show something after 3 years. Running the correct routes and getting separation is up to the WR. Feel free to show us any highlight plays that show your context and where TMJ would have had a great year with other QBs and schemes. Look at DJ Moore. He went through lots of “different” scenarios but it was very clear by year 3 (and before) that he had talent and could play. I know you like to be the contrarian and act like other people don’t get it but if you are going to back TMJ and tell everyone else they are wrong about him, I think it’s you that needs to provide something tangible. You need to show why you think he can play because his first 3 years as a 2nd round pick have been terrible even with tons of opportunities.