How bad is Ron Rivera?

[Ship]

i honestly believe ron will can shula and rodgers on his own at the end of the season. i have to believe that ron knows they have cost us this year. i have to believe that at some point ron is being made aware of all the things we've seen and complained about with the offense-- either from dave or from cam, if not on his own film review. i don't think ron is scared to have a big time offense or an offense that is creative. he helped draft cam newton and he brought in chud. he worked for norv. he isn't afraid of big play offense or razzle dazzle players and schemes. i think the continuity argument for upping shula over an outsider at the time was a better move. cam was younger, ron was moving into a make or break year. he didn't want to re-do half his team going into that year. i think he's in a better position to make changes and exert more control over his staff now that he has his longer deal and cam has continued to grow into a guy who can run the no huddle offense on his own. plus, you dance with the one who brung ya. rodgers and shula had success last year, and ron got his first playoff birth. you don't just send those guys packing after that year.

 

things have changed this season, but again, there is a lot that we can't control. imagine if we had our o-line playing the way they are right now from the beginning of the season. or CJ at full health. or Cam at full health. or Bene at full health. or DWill injured. we'd be resting our starters next week. however, if we had started norwell and trai and if we even had remmers on the squad for week 1, let alone as the starter, i bet they don't look the way they do now. things take time. it's been a bad luck year for a lot of teams and playoff teams from last year won't be in the dance this year. the fact that we're lucky enough and resilient enough to be in a win and you're in game speaks to the change in our team. it used to be that we'd have our good year and then injuries and things out of our control would put us out of contention. we've weathered those things now. i don't care if it's luck this year or not, i'll take any luck our team can get for anything.

 

if ron doesn't make those changes or doesn't acknowledge that they made our season that much harder to succeed through, then i'd become more dumbfounded and more skeptical of him. i think especially if we get in the playoffs and potentially win a game this year, we can nab an OC who has big time potential. we're a winner and we have the only true dual threat QB who can survive in this league. and yeah, even if we have a losing record, i consider this season a winner if we go to the playoffs.

 

also, i think the better talent we have in the booth the better ron's clock management and challenges will look. it seems pretty clear his challenges are mostly based on what the guys upstairs see. 

[Dexterity]

It would help, but it wouldn't be enough in the big picture. Ron has to make some serious changes of his own if he is going to succeed in this job. He needs to put his imprint on the offense, stop playing scared to lose, and stop being overly loyal to clearly underperforming players.

Shula is the guy Ron wanted, you can claim it was for continuity, but in the end, he was Rivera's choice. As was our special teams coach.

I have doubts that Shula will be fired. If anything he would probably just be demoted to quarterbacks coach.

As for Shula being "so damn conservative", how do you know that isn't the type of offense Rivera wants? We're talking about a guy here who still plays for field goals more often than he should, and in crucial end of game situations, even though we've repeatedly lost that way.

Shula can take a good bit of the blame, but Rivera has to stand up and be the damn head coach. He's in charge of it all.

Rivera needs to put his stamp on this team. Like the coaches you referenced in the OP.

Shula has ALWAYS been conservative. I don't think Rivera will fire him either. But I do think Gettleman will force a change. I'd be fine demoting Shula back to QB coach. Cam & Mike seem to have a great relationship.

[MHS831]

 

But at the same time, we have Norman, Benekiwere, Brown, Boston, etc... that have flourished under his tutelage.  The team has a young feel to it, and we're in contention for the NFCS title, which would make us the first back-to-back winners.  At the same time, NO is in cap hell, Atlanta has all it's talent concentrated in a few positions and no depth, and Tampa Bay is gonna Lovie.  So while he may not be the best coach out there, he's set up the team for a pretty nice run.

 

I see the layering of bringing in free agents to fill immediate voids and developing the talent to replace them.  We did it with Turner at RG, Boston at S, Norwell at LG (even though it probably was not by design.  There are other cases.

 

I think Rivera may have bitten off more than he could chew with Bell and Chandler--I think he convinced Gettlemen that he had something when he didn't/  Just a guess.  I personally hoped Newton would be farther along, and I have been critical of his growth.  Other than these cases, I think the team has improved and they have been loyal to the coach and each other. 

 

Good point about this staff--they are teachers, not game managers or even strategists.  That is why Shula is such a bad fit here-we need a veteran offensive mind who Rivera can trust to manage the game, if only on offense.  McDermott and Rivera are showing that they can adjust and manage the defense.

[MHS831]

About Shula always being conservative, you have to look at the tools he had.  Who were his QBs in Tampa?  Who were his weapons in college?  He has never really been on a team that didn't emphasize the defense.

 

I agree with Red (Damn), it all comes down to Rivera.  He makes the changes.  I also do not think RR will fire Shula.  I think the offense becomes less conservative when the personnel show they can handle it.  If you could complete a bomb on every play, every conservative OC would throw bombs every play.  We need a LT and another WR.  I am sure RR and Shula will be more aggressive with a running game, more time, and a shiny new WR threat.

[Mojo]

Keep in mind these performances were good enough to get them canned from their first jobs.  

bingo.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Yep but he iz a hispanic so that means only undefeated records to avoid criticism.

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[Captain Obvious]

1st 4 seasons as NFL Head Coach

Pete Carroll:

33-31 (1-2) W/L, 1x Div title, 1x wild card

Bill Belichick:

31-33 (2-1) W/L, 1x wild card

Ron Rivera:

31-31-1 (0-1) W/L, 1x Div title, 1x NFL COY

 

this team is full of suck. from the coaches down to the water boy. I'm not sure how we won the games we did and how in the hell are we in playoff contention. We need to blow up this team and start over. New Coach. Trade or cut everybody. Nobody is safe. I'll take 3 to 5 years of one or two win seasons to get rid of the stink that is this current team. 

[Marguide]

 I think the offense becomes less conservative when the personnel show they can handle it. 

 

I don't believe that for a second.

 

Rivera doesn't make changes until his back is against the wall and there is no other way out. He and Shula will continue to play their style, trying to control things so the players do not have an opportunity to make a mistake. The only way players will get a chance to show they can handle it will be in a situation like this year, when we had just about been eliminated from contention.

[MHS831]

I don't believe that for a second.

 

Rivera doesn't make changes until his back is against the wall and there is no other way out. He and Shula will continue to play their style, trying to control things so the players do not have an opportunity to make a mistake. The only way players will get a chance to show they can handle it will be in a situation like this year, when we had just about been eliminated from contention.

 

I agree that anyone gets more aggressive when there is nothing to lose--that is human nature.  However, being more aggressive on offense without the weapons is not always a good thing.  This year,  Cam was out of camp and had all new WRs.  He had zero chemistry with them.  The OL was in disarray and the running game was left to a 31-year old and a bunch of free agents.  I just don't see how that gives anyone confidence to be aggressive.