What is the Panthers "scariest" Offensive Personnel Grouping

[KB_fan]

Last night I came across an interesting article at USA Today's "FTW" which identifies ten of the "scariest" offensive personnel groupings in the NFL.  They included the Panthers 22 personnel set (2 RBs, 2 TEs, 1 WR - with Stew, Tolbert, Olsen, Dickson, and KB) as our scariest package, and one that makes us particularly dangerous in the Red Zone.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/ranking-nfl-10-most-dangerous-offense-skill-player-groupings

 

 

Quote

 

6. Carolina Panthers, 22 personnel

QB: Cam Newton, RB: Jonathan Stewart, Mike Tolbert, TE: Greg Olsen, Ed Dickson, WR: Kelvin Benjamin

This personnel package used to be a staple in the NFL; now it’s typically reserved for short-yardage and goal-line situations. No team is more dangerous on such plays as the Panthers, and that’s why they make the list. Newton’s running ability gives Carolina an extra blocker and requires defenses to account for all 11 offensive players. That opens up opportunities for top-shelf red zone targets like Olsen and Benjamin. The 2015 Panthers were one of the best red zone teams in the league last year — that should be the case again in 2016 thanks to this lineup.

 

It's a fun article to browse.

Three possible questions for discussion:

1) What do you consider the Panthers scariest personnel grouping - either in the past or looking ahead to 2016?

2) What personnel groupings of other teams do you consider particularly dangerous - do you agree with the USA Today rankings?

3) A subset of the 2nd question:  It's perhaps too early to really say much before training camp and the preseason games, but which personnel groupings / teams are going to present the biggest challenge to us this season with a rebuilding secondary?

[Jeremy Igo]

Whenever I see Bersin lined up for a probable bubble screen I have to close my eyes. 

[The_Rainmaker]

3 hours ago, KB_fan said:

Last night I came across an interesting article at USA Today's "FTW" which identifies ten of the "scariest" offensive personnel groupings in the NFL.  They included the Panthers 22 personnel set (2 RBs, 2 TEs, 1 WR - with Stew, Tolbert, Olsen, Dickson, and KB) as our scariest package, and one that makes us particularly dangerous in the Red Zone.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/ranking-nfl-10-most-dangerous-offense-skill-player-groupings

 

 

It's a fun article to browse.

Three possible questions for discussion:

1) What do you consider the Panthers scariest personnel grouping - either in the past or looking ahead to 2016?

2) What personnel groupings of other teams do you consider particularly dangerous - do you agree with the USA Today rankings?

3) A subset of the 2nd question:  It's perhaps too early to really say much before training camp and the preseason games, but which personnel groupings / teams are going to present the biggest challenge to us this season with a rebuilding secondary?

Replace Dickson with Sandland and Tolbert with Rockhead and you got yourself balance playcall to run or pass to either side. I posted this play about week ago.

[cbarrier90]

I still say the play action bootleg out of the bunch formation the Panthers use in short yardage situations is impossible to stop. I'm pretty sure that's what Rainmaker has drawn up.^

The play action freezes the pass rush and leaves LBs and DEs with the unenviable choice of preventing either a wide open Olsen reception or Cam running around or through them for the first down.

[The_Rainmaker]

43 minutes ago, cbarrier90 said:

I still say the play action bootleg out of the bunch formation the Panthers use in short yardage situations is impossible to stop. I'm pretty sure that's what Rainmaker has drawn up.^

The play action freezes the pass rush and leaves LBs and DEs with the unenviable choice of preventing either a wide open Olsen reception or Cam running around or through them for the first down.

You have multiple options you can go playaction or HB run of  tackle to either side, a toss to FB, screen or dump off to FB .. So many scenarios depending on down & distance. 

[imminent rogaine]

36 minutes ago, cbarrier90 said:

I still say the play action bootleg out of the bunch formation the Panthers use in short yardage situations is impossible to stop. I'm pretty sure that's what Rainmaker has drawn up.^

The play action freezes the pass rush and leaves LBs and DEs with the unenviable choice of preventing either a wide open Olsen reception or Cam running around or through them for the first down.

I like play action calls for Cam in general. It allows Cam the time to assess the field for openings, and take off around the edge where he likely has to contend with CBs and Safeties instead of DTs and DEs.

The play above gives you two options for play action and blocking/chipping which I like. I don't know if you'd ever sub Ginn for KB, because either really forces the other team to consider shadowing w a safety, but having Ginn as a deep threat on the outside there would really put the D in a bind... if they show 8 in the box, you burn them over the top w play action and if that is covered, you have a TE outlet or Cam keeps it. If they show coverage, just run it and take your 3+ yards. I know the big play is flashy but sometimes its fun to watch a team just bludgeon the other team to death with RB and FB runs out of a power formation.

[The_Rainmaker]

1 minute ago, imminent rogaine said:

I like play action calls for Cam in general. It allows Cam the time to assess the field for openings, and take off around the edge where he likely has to contend with CBs and Safeties instead of DTs and DEs.

The play above gives you two options for play action and blocking/chipping which I like. I don't know if you'd ever sub Ginn for KB, because either really forces the other team to consider shadowing w a safety, but having Ginn as a deep threat on the outside there would really put the D in a bind... if they show 8 in the box, you burn them over the top w play action and if that is covered, you have a TE outlet or Cam keeps it. If they show coverage, just run it and take your 3+ yards. I know the big play is flashy but sometimes its fun to watch a team just bludgeon the other team to death with RB and FB runs out of a power formation.

If Rockhead makes the team as HB/FB/TE its gives the panthers even more versatilty with his ability to run , run block & catch will allow the play to go on either side without tipping off the defense. One play he is a lead blocker for Stewart the next he is taking dump off from cam or a FB dive between Kalil & Trai. 

[London Loves Luke]

This one:

[d-dave]

I'm no football genius here, but I think that anytime we can put KB and Ginn on the same side of a play is going to be deadly.  Now a defense will have to respect Ginn's deep speed (10TDs on 44 catches, hello!) but pick to contain him with a S or crash down on KB working the intermediate.

Oh yeah, 88 will be out there too.  And Tolbert, Stewart, or maybe Philly or Funchess, or another TE...  If they roll coverage to KB/Ginn, then that opens things up on the other side or middle of the field.

Then again, I know you smart guys will point out the holes in my logic =)

[ShutDwn]

Depends where we are on the field.

I'd rather take a defender out of the box than add a blocker. Go look at Stew's splits when we have 2 TEs. It's not good. The Broncos gave the blueprint to clog everything. It's easier said than done but someone finally treated Dickson and Tolbert like the non-threats they are. Actually I think the Titans did a solid job with this too.

Idk if we have the OTs for it yet but the goal should always be to commit less men to blocking. Max protect worked surprisingly well but we can't rest on what worked last year. We need to spread the field and let the MVP pick his mismatches. 

Funchess > any #2 TE 

edit - since I know none of you will go look at Stew's splits by formation, here they are.

BY OFFENSIVE FORMATION	ATT	% Carries	YDS	AVG
Shotgun	98	40%	534	5.4
2 Backs Split	13	5%	56	4.3
I-Formation	51	21%	80	1.6
Lone Setback	128	53%	645	5
BY WR FORMATION	ATT	% Carries	YDS	AVG
2 Wide Receivers	102	42%	375	3.7
3 Wide Receivers	53	22%	327	6.2
4+ Wide Receivers	3	1%	16	5.3
BY TE FORMATION	ATT	% Carries	YDS	AVG
0 Tight Ends	7	3%	46	6.6
1 Tight End	113	47%	519	4.6
2 Tight Ends	87	36%	295	3.4
3+ Tight Ends	35	14%	129	3.7

[KSpan]

I'd have to think that having Ginn on the field, in this case perhaps for Dickson, adds an entirely different dimension and is more dangerous. I get their reasoning though.

[KB_fan]

Interesting comment, @ShutDwn   I've been wondering with the potential improvement of our WR corps due to getting KB back and the improvement of other players like Funch & Brown, whether we might run more 3 WR groupings.   A great way to keep our offense unpredictable...

By the way, this reminds me of a question I have.

Does anyone know of a resource or link that shows what offensive formation we lined up in, how often?  I'd been wanting to compare how often we ran 2 TE sets over the past few years, but am not sure where to look.  I've seen defensive stats - i.e. the % of plays we're in nickel vs. base, but I don't recall seeing RECENT offensive formation stats.

I found this article from 3 years ago, but nothing more recent:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/offensive-packages/

[EightyNine]

Cam, KB, Ginn, Olsen, Stewart, Funch. 

You have to put Ginn in there for obvious reasons..I'm not really sure why they would include Dickson over Ginn..I guess he is pretty dangerous on those fumble recoveries.. Philly deserves an honorable mention.

[KB_fan]

25 minutes ago, ShutDwn said:

edit - since I know none of you will go look at Stew's splits by formation, here they are.

THANKS FOR ADDING THE DATA!!!  Much appreciated.  I've not done a lot at looking at situational splits. 

Where do you find that kind of data? I don't think I've seen that on the game splits for the NFL.com player pages?