Coaching or Execution?

[RumHam]

It honestly feels like our guys just forget everything every year. There's no excuse for dumb penalties. 

[run1stdownrun2nddown]

6 hours ago, cultclassiccat said:

You're an idiot if you think we couldn't get better by replacing at least Shula.  Ron is a stretch but I don't see the harm in trying.  That's my opinion and Im entitled to it after watching the same games as you yr after yr.  I'm not overreacting, I'm giving food for thought.  Don't waste my time quoting me with this garbage. 

Oh... oh my.

[Nick_81]

35 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

OK, but to believe this is all on coaching, you also have to believe that Cam is not allowed to audible to a run if he doesn't like what he sees.

The stats are great and all, but they don't tell the whole story.  That's the flaw in all of the graphs and information.  The running backs have to be the main contributors in the run game, for our offense to really take off.  Cam is great, and his designed runs/scrambles are great, but they are only a bonus to the system we run.  Running backs carried 19 times against Minnesota.  6 of those were in the first quarter, before the first sack(safety).  Over 31.5% of our run plays happened in just over 2 offensive series.  That's the problem.  Not sure what happened, but even Cam mentioned it in the post game presser, stating, "We were running the football extremely well, keeping them off balance and then all of a sudden, after the safety it was good riddance."  Both of those are facts, that are pretty good indications that we abandoned the run, but the stat sheet doesn't show that information.

I'm inclined to put that on play calling, but I don't know all of the information, and I'm not so shallow that I wouldn't consider all possibilities

[rico6]

19 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Of course execution. Turnovers, special teams blunders and penalty killing drives were responsible for both losses and almost cost us against SF. Anybody with a modicum of football awareness knows that holding penalties which brings back a TD, stops first downs resulting in first and 20 or first and 30 after 2 penalties, blocking whiffs ending in sacks, and 2 missed field goals as well as a TD on a special teams gaff and a safety were the biggest difference between 3-0 and 1-3. Fix mistakes and we win all three games so far. That doesn't even include wide open receivers which aren't seen, and allowing guys to make catches over the middle uncontested and getting no pressure on quarterbacks.

Since no one here even has a clue how much of the play calling is Shula versus Cam changing or not changing the play, you don't really know what was called versus what occurred. Plus why does McDermott get a pass after the defensive gaffs and points allowed in the second half versus the first.  You could make a good argument that the defense caused more of the problems than the offense. And the offensive gaffs which put the defense in bad spots was totally bad execution.  And what about the special teams coach ?  

I give McD a bigger pass than Shula due to the fact our Offensive Talent >> our Defensive Talent so the room for error on the offensive side should be damn near non-existent. McD literally is tasked with making a roster consisting of Charles Johnson, 2 Rookie CBs and Tre Boston a top 10 defense. 

poo is bad, man.

 

But to the thread, definitely Coaching.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

35 minutes ago, Nick_81 said:

The stats are great and all, but they don't tell the whole story.  That's the flaw in all of the graphs and information.  The running backs have to be the main contributors in the run game, for our offense to really take off.  Cam is great, and his designed runs/scrambles are great, but they are only a bonus to the system we run.  Running backs carried 19 times against Minnesota.  6 of those were in the first quarter, before the first sack(safety).  Over 31.5% of our run plays happened in just over 2 offensive series.  That's the problem.  Not sure what happened, but even Cam mentioned it in the post game presser, stating, "We were running the football extremely well, keeping them off balance and then all of a sudden, after the safety it was good riddance."  Both of those are facts, that are pretty good indications that we abandoned the run, but the stat sheet doesn't show that information.

I'm inclined to put that on play calling, but I don't know all of the information, and I'm not so shallow that I wouldn't consider all possibilities

I was talking about Cam audibling to a run by the RB's, not him. I'm sure he knows this offense well enough by now to know what to call vs what the defense is doing. So again, in order to blame it all on the coaching staff, you also have to believe that Cam is not allowed to audible or have any input on the play calling.

Personally, I believe that the players are involved in the game planning, so you can't put it all on the coaches.

[panthers55]

44 minutes ago, rico6 said:

I give McD a bigger pass than Shula due to the fact our Offensive Talent >> our Defensive Talent so the room for error on the offensive side should be damn near non-existent. McD literally is tasked with making a roster consisting of Charles Johnson, 2 Rookie CBs and Tre Boston a top 10 defense. 

poo is bad, man.

 

But to the thread, definitely Coaching.

If you look at the number of players drafted in the second and first round on offense versus defense it is pretty close.  

The defense has Charles Johnson, 3rd rounder, Star- first rounder, KK- second rounder, Ealy- Second Rounder.  Davis- Ist rounder, Kuechly- first rounder, Shaq- first rounder, Boston- 4th rounder, Coleman- 7th rounder, Benwikere- 5th rounder, Bradberry- 2nd round, Worley- 3rd round

ON offense we have- Oher- first rounder, Norwell- undrafted, Kalil- 2nd rounder, Turner- 3rd rounder, Remmers- undrafted, Newton- first rounder, Stewart- first rounder, Tolbert- undrafted, Olsen- first rounder, Benjamin- first rounder, Funchess- 2nd rounder, Ginn- first rounder

 

I didnt include the whole rotation or the backups just the starters.  On defense we have 4 first rounders, 3 second rounders, 2 third rounders, a fourth, a fifth, and a 7th.   

On defense we have 6 first rounders, 2 second rounders, 1 third, and 3 undrafted guys.

Seems like we have 9 guys who were drafted int he first 3 rounds on both defense and offense.  The offense actually has more undrafted guys including 2 on the all important offensive line.

I dont know that one side has it easier than the other.  And guess which side of the ball is ranked higher right now in the only important stat which is points for versus points against. 

Offensive- 12th- 25.3

Defensive- 18th- 23.3

Total yards stats are stupid comparisons BTW since you don't win based on yards only points.  So who is really doing a better job????

[cultclassiccat]

3 hours ago, run1stdownrun2nddown said:

Oh... oh my.

 

[stankowalski]

16 hours ago, cultclassiccat said:

You're an idiot if you think we couldn't get better by replacing at least Shula.  Ron is a stretch but I don't see the harm in trying.  That's my opinion and Im entitled to it after watching the same games as you yr after yr.  I'm not overreacting, I'm giving food for thought.  Don't waste my time quoting me with this garbage. 

If you really have watched every game since the team's inception then how the fug can you not like what we have going on under Ron? Three straight division titles?  I remember the days (and there were A LOT of them) just wishing to get back to back wins.  We are struggling early on this season but if you can't see any silver linings then there is no hope for you and you might as well stop watching football and tune into something else.  

[cultclassiccat]

1 minute ago, stankowalski said:

If you really have watched every game since the team's inception then how the fug can you not like what we have going on under Ron? Three straight division titles?  I remember the days (and there were A LOT of them) just wishing to get back to back wins.  We are struggling early on this season but if you can't see any silver linings then there is no hope for you and you might as well stop watching football and tune into something else.  

It's a stretch, I know.  Again, it's food for thought.  After watching our games I think we might be better.  That's my opinion and I will root for my team, just like you, wanting the best.  All we do is play armchair gm and this is my take.  like it or not 

[stankowalski]

1 minute ago, cultclassiccat said:

It's a stretch, I know.  Again, it's food for thought.  After watching our games I think we might be better.  That's my opinion and I will root for my team, just like you, wanting the best.  All we do is play armchair gm and this is my take.  like it or not 

Well I disagree with your assessment then.  What I see so far is 2 losses to 2 good teams caused by turnover's and special teams miscues.  I mean just think about it for a second.  How would your view be if Denver hadn't called a timeout and we won that game (because Gano did make his first kick).  Or how differently do you think the game against Minnesota would have been if KB didn't get penalized on that TD run that would have put us up 2 scores I think?  Football is a game of momentum and we've been on that bad side of that in our losses.  One play can drastically affect everything in a game.  We just have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and we'll be fine.

[MurkN]

The fact that we have to waste timeouts because we can't get the play call in on time when half of them suck anyway, week after week, is mind boggling.

[stankowalski]

10 minutes ago, MurkN said:

The fact that we have to waste timeouts because we can't get the play call in on time when half of them suck anyway, week after week, is mind boggling.

How is that a fact?  I see this viewpoint has been thrown down and other people run with it, but I haven't seen any proof.  I mean is this like Nascar where we can listen in on the pit crews?  

[MurkN]

2 hours ago, stankowalski said:

How is that a fact?  I see this viewpoint has been thrown down and other people run with it, but I haven't seen any proof.  I mean is this like Nascar where we can listen in on the pit crews?  

Some of that is just my opinion, but we do waste timeouts when we shouldn't be, that's a fact.

 

[stankowalski]

There is still no proof in those videos.  Maybe someone was out of position?  Maybe his earpiece wasn't working?  Can't draw any real conclusions unless you want to go with the announcer's insight that he was frustrated because the play didn't get in, in time.  

Ridiculous drawing conclusions when in fact nobody knows poo outside the coaches box and the huddle (the actual huddle, not this one).

 

Oh look, somebody uploaded a video and titled it "Cam Newton Not Happy About Slow Play Calls"...it must be true, it's on the interwebz!!