Gil Brandt says Let KK Walk...

[Saca312]

@AceBoogieAlso, the argument that "Blah blah blah Dave wouldn't have franchised him anyway."

Well, consider this. Josh Norman could've signed the tag. It's right in front of him.

It's like when your mom buys you some amazing candy that you love, but almost never get, and puts it right in front of you; all you had to do was eat it and it was yours.

But, you decide instead of immediately eating it, you decide to save it for another time, thinking maybe mom would get more at another time after waiting out a decent bit of time.

However, one day you get grounded, and your mom decides you don't deserve the candy anymore, so she takes it, and says you can't have it anymore.

It was right there. All you had to do was eat it, but you decided to wait it out, wanting more.

Josh Norman had that franchise tag right in front of him. All he had to do was sign it, and no one could do anything about it. But, soon enough, Josh's agent was acting like a fool, so Dave Gettleman cut loose.

 

 

[The_Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Signing KK would have been possible if we signed Norman. Those who say we couldn't forget how contracts are structured. Cap hit is what mattered and Norman's cap hit could have been 10 million or less in 2016. And remember the KK salary increase would be paid in 2017 not 2016. He is already under contract and paid for in 2016. Extensions add on to existing contracts they don't replace them. The difference is KK gets paid the signing bonus when he signs In 2016 but it gets spread out over the life of the contract for cap hit purposes.

 

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

I'd say tag him or see if he'll take a one year deal to make up for this bad contract year and then see if he can perform at a high level for another year or two then make a decision based on that. If he does walk though I wouldn't be that upset. I like KK but he isn't worth what he was asking to be paid before this season. He's not even worth what DG seemed willing to pay before the year until he shows more consistency. Butler will turn out to be a great pick going forward. Star will get a deal here and be here a long time.

We already tried the tag scenario which didn't work out, Carolina doesn't need the drama again. Panthers have enough cap space to sign KK & Star to extensions, defense will be better next season with secondary gaining experience & it will take that extra pass rusher to take the defense to a elite level. 

If you want to win the SB your gonna have to make to some investmenst, as DG stated he doens't like developing talent for other teams. 

[Wundrbread33]

I wouldn't tag him. Not that type of player. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

If Norman's cap hit was $10M this year, that means his 2017 cap number would be huge (based on guarantees). Washington has an $8M cap hit for Norman in 2016. His 2017 cap hit? $20M.

You can spread the cap hit out however you want, but it doesn't go away. That's how we got into cap issues.

We couldn't have afforded to keep both of them at $30M per season, simple as that, without letting Star and Turner or Norwell go.

No it doesn't mean Normans cap hit would be huge in 2017.  There are a hundred ways to spread out the cap hit like roster and option bonuses back loading contracts and even restructuring. Just because Washington decided to do 20 million doesn't make it smart or the right way to go. When has Washington ever been smart about the cap?

And they wouldnt have been 30 million combined, more like 22-24.  We are expected to have at least 30 million cap space next year and the 30 we move over gives us 60 and that doesn't count the cap going up or letting anyone signed go away.  Nope as much as folks want to play the we couldnt afforded them, that is not true at all. The cap can be manipulated a bunch of ways. That is just a stupid excuse to cover for Getlemans hubris and stupidity.

[The_Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, AceBoogie said:

Smh Bruh we had the 11th ranked pass defense last year. This year we are 27th behind fuging New Orleans. Bradberry is solid. Josh Norman was a playmaker for us. There's a difference. 

Norman made game winning plays, he was good at stopping division WRs which is what those games came down to this year. Just imagine having Norman & Bradberry opposite of each other. 

[juliosantos]

then our run defense will suffer . pay our players!!!! 

[heel31ok]

1 hour ago, carolinajay said:

So you believe Josh would have took less money eventually?

 

Yes...

[carolinajay]

10 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Yes...

What leads you to believe that?

quotes? source? circumstances?

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Saca312 said:

Because our cornerbacks are obviously the issue and give up 100+ yards to pro receivers

Let's see, Bradberry was named top 22 of 25 cornerbacks this season by PFF, and has never let a big play on him or really any receiver go 60+ yards on him after week 1.

Worley held crabtree to around 33 or less yards when crabtree and him matched up. That's saying something.

Amari Cooper was silent.

Gotta wonder though, maybe Gettleman did know what he was doing...

Bradbury is good for a rookie but not anything like a veteran would have been. He hasn't even been healthy all year let alone a shut down guy.  He got lucky he wasn't starting when Jones played us or he would have gotten used as well. Worley is pretty poor both covering and tackling. And he hasn't stayed healthy either. No Getleman was okay to draft them but needed vets to start and work the rookies into the mix to avoid the huge issues that plagued us in the beginning of the year which killed the season. We play zone largely because we can't play man and that is why we give up so many yards and the safeties look so bad. They don't know who to help because none of the corners are reliable. While we played zone last year, Norman was often locked on his receiver 1 on 1 with no help which allowed the safeties to cover elsewhere. Why do you think teams are using 4 or 5 receiver sets? Because our secondary is poor and we might have 2 decent cover guys. They figure at least 2 guys will be open on every play. Most times they are right.

[panthers55]

14 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

What leads you to believe that?

quotes? source? circumstances?

He said he would sign the tag and negotiate. He offered to fire his agent and make concessions. He wanted to play here and would have taken a hometown discount to do it. Unlike now we were a Super Bowl team last year and ready to repeat. Guys wanted to be here and we're willing to take less for a ring. I doubt most players still think that. Another way Gettleman has cost us. 

[carolinajay]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

He said he would sign the tag and negotiate. He offered to fire his agent and make concessions. He wanted to play here and would have taken a hometown discount to do it. Unlike now we were a Super Bowl team last year and ready to repeat. Guys wanted to be here and we're willing to take less for a ring. I doubt most players still think that. Any way Getleman has cost us

Why did it take getting the tag taking away for him to get serious about signing it?  Why not sign the tag and negotiate in good faith from the start instead of leaving the team in the dark for months?

He wanted to play here for the right price. $15M per year isn't a hometown discount it's market value.

Like who?

[heel31ok]

Laugh at me laugh at truth...same thing...

[carolinajay]

9 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Laugh at me laugh at truth...same thing...

What truth?

[panthers55]

8 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

Why did it take getting the tag taking away for him to get serious about signing it?  Why not sign the tag and negotiate in good faith from the start instead of leaving the team in the dark for months?

He wanted to play here for the right price. $15M per year isn't a hometown discount it's market value.

Like who?

This was his first negotiation. He used an agent he knew but not necessarily a knowledgeable experienced guy. His agent told him to talk tough and about the money and that the Panthers were going to cave because they couldn't afford to eat up all the cap the franchise tag would require. There was no consideration that the Panthers would seriously pull the franchise tag. How many times does that happen that isn't injury related to a probowl player?  It shocked Norman and he called Gettleman and tried to work things out but Gettleman told him it is too late you had your chance so now go elsewhere.  So Norman did and once he got into the league as such a high free agent the cost went up significantly . But he would have signed here for 12 million and a significant signing bonus. That is 2 million more than was reportedly being offered by the Panthers. At least that is how this old mind remembers it.........I might have a few numbers slightly off.