The Star Wars Prequels are actually good.

[CarolinaCoolin]

9 hours ago, Darth Biscuit said:

I don't.  His reasoning, like yours, is talking about Lucas motivations and his perceived audience, and things like that frankly don't matter imo.  I've seen the movies and I'm not basing my opinion on other people's reviews or opinions.  I don't need someone to say "well. Lucas was misunderstood"... he very well may have been, but why does that matter?  I don't think the prequels are as good as the original trilogy based on my viewing of them (multiple, multiple times).  Was the original trilogy criticized for a lot of similar things (in it's time) as the prequels, sure it was... all movies are...  does that change MY personal opinion of it?  No, it does not.  If Lucas meant them for this audience or that audience, does that change MY personal opinion of it? No, it does not.  See where I'm going?

 

Obviously you've seen it and I haven't, without having to write a book, what else would he have that might change my mind?

So context means nothing is what you are saying?

[d-dave]

2 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

But generally in film and theater you don't tell  actors how to act. And if they suck then you fire them and replace them. Direction is one thing, repeatedly telling someone how to say the lines is another.  That takes away an actors own instincts and if a director doesn't like their instincts then that is a casting issue. 

13 years a K-12 Theatre Teacher...it happens all the time!  To a degree, you trust some of your actors to make choices, others make the completely wrong choice.  Though I will never do line reading.  I will poke and prod an actor using actions, emotions, whatever, but never a line reading.  

Back to the Prequels - there were major issues with Hayden Christensen's performance.  It was too flat, one note, lacks to real evolution from Good Kid to Sith Lord.  The moments were there in the script, but each time he had them, he came across as a spoiled brat who got the cookie his dad wouldn't let him have.  I would have liked to have seen nuance, which he could do earlier in his career.

There were also major fails in the scripting and much of the editing didn't help.  Editing film is really f'ing hard.  I've only done very small, school films, and it can take hours for every minute of dialogue sometimes.  But you mean to tell me that was the best they had?  They didn't have any other takes?  Improv takes?  Or was Lucas so hard for his own vision he lost out on making good movies?

I appreciate all Lucas did in creating Star Wars, in the Holy Trilogy, and how he stepped away.  He really should have had a strong opposition in the prequels.  Someone to call him on his crap.  That would have helped those out tremendously, along with having more oversight from actual script writers.

[Darth Biscuit]

8 hours ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

So context means nothing is what you are saying?

Context of what?  I don't really understand what you mean by that.  

 

[CarolinaCoolin]

2 hours ago, Darth Biscuit said:

Context of what?  I don't really understand what you mean by that.  

 

You said his motivations and "perceived"(actually intended) audience don't matter. 

 

Of course they matter. Context and perspective are important when viewing art or anything for that matter. 

[Darth Biscuit]

Just now, CarolinaCoolin said:

You said his motivations and "perceived"(actually intended) audience don't matter. 

 

Of course they matter. Context and perspective are important when viewing art or anything for that matter. 

I disagree.  The context of, and intent of George Lucas is irrelevant to me as a consumer of these movies.  Sure you can objectively praise or criticize Lucas on any of the aspects of the films, as we have here (plot, dialogue, action, CGI, etc) taking into account his meanings and motivations.  But purely as a movie watcher, those things are meaningless to me as I watch the films and realize that the prequels aren't as good to me as the original trilogy.

 

This applies to literally anything, art or otherwise.  Why do I care what an author/artists motivations/audience/context are/is if I don't enjoy said works?  

My other illustration stands.  Batman v Superman sucks.  Did Zack Snyder intend to make a bad movie?  No, he intended to make a block buster killer movie.  He did not.  Do his intentions or motivations matter to the audience?  Did you watch it and think "man, that sucked, but Snyder really wanted it to be good, so I think I'll like it"?  I sincerely doubt it.

 

As an academic exercise, good can be found in any kind of art (pretty much)...  Lucas CGI and sounds (as we've previously discussed) in the prequels are excellent.  That alone doesn't make the movies "good" in most people's opinions.

 

[CarolinaCoolin]

33 minutes ago, Darth Biscuit said:

 

 

This applies to literally anything, art or otherwise.  Why do I care what an author/artists motivations/audience/context are/is if I don't enjoy said works?  

 

 

 

Because the context can give you a different perspective. Instead of watching something and hating it for what it's not or what you want it to be you add the context and the motivations and deliberate stylistic choices taken and you enjoy it for what it is and what it is meant to be. 

 

Thats the whole point of the thread, to shift perspective and enjoy something for what it is

[Darth Biscuit]

2 minutes ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Because the context can give you a different perspective. Instead of watching something and hating it for what it's not or what you want it to be you add the context and the motivations and deliberate stylistic choices taken and you enjoy it for what it is and what it is meant to be. 

 

Thats the whole point of the thread, to shift perspective and enjoy something for what it is

I mean it is a valid way to try and enjoy something, I can agree on that.  I certainly don't hate the prequels, I've kind of come to a peace with the fact that they are what they are.  Nothing will change my subjective opinion that the original trilogy is better and that Lucas could have done a much better job with the prequels than what he did, but what you're saying is valid.

 

[TheRed]

Might have to just burn it all with fire by mere association with Jar Jar Binks.

[Darth Biscuit]

1 hour ago, TheRed said:

Might have to just burn it all with fire by mere association with Jar Jar Binks.

Also a valid point.

[uncfan888]

How about the fact that the guy made this thread to beg @Darth Biscuit to watch this documentary and he basically said nah. Haha. Too funny 

[CarolinaCoolin]

On 3/4/2017 at 2:33 AM, uncfan888 said:

How about the fact that the guy made this thread to beg @Darth Biscuit to watch this documentary and he basically said nah. Haha. Too funny 

Beg is a strong word. I saw it and thought he could take something away from it. I guess he is broke that he can't spend 3 dollars on a quality documentary. Even then I offered to pay for it lol

[Darth Biscuit]

On 3/7/2017 at 5:32 AM, CarolinaCoolin said:

Beg is a strong word. I saw it and thought he could take something away from it. I guess he is broke that he can't spend 3 dollars on a quality documentary. Even then I offered to pay for it lol

Yep I'm broke...  or it could be that I gathered enough info from the trailer I watched to realize that a) I wasn't interested in watching more and b) it wasn't going to change my mind because although it was an interesting endeavor, it was based on a flawed premise.

[Jangler]

Episode 1 should have been written around Anakins mother, then we understand the anger.  

Too much fluff, Jar Jar being the main distraction.

[cookinwithgas]

I was watching the deleted scenes from ROTJ yesterday and was reminded about Moff Jerjerrods conflicts serving the Emperor and his surviving telling Vader what to do based on the Emperors command. He was ordered to destroy Endor despite his troops still being on it and was having a really hard time giving the order. It made the Emperor look like the jerk we all knew he was based on the prequels, but it also generated sympathy for the Imperial troops being killed by our heroes at the time so I can see why it was axed - but man that movie needed an adult running it. Kids LOVED Empire even though it was clearly more adult oriented than the other movies and showed that there was a sweet spot for what kind of story Star Wars excels in telling. I wasn't around any kids when Jedi was out but they seemed to sell a lot of toys from it, but as a 19 year old it was a pretty disappointing end in many ways.

So far it's looking like The Last Jedi will get a little more adult in it's material than TFA but that's still to be seen.