Looking at Spotrac... Noticed a few VERY interesting things

[KB_fan]

Thanks for the corrections with the contract details from Panthers.com.  I thought the number of ERFAs seemed high.  I hadn't had a chance to cross-check yet.

[The Lobo]

Does this mean will sign FA WRs?

[KB_fan]

Just now, The Lobo said:

Does this mean will sign FA WRs?

I don't have a crystal ball, and even if I did, I've learned Dave is pretty unpredictable! 

Depends I guess on:

1) Whether we want to resign Ted Ginn and can reach an acceptable deal with him.

2) How confident the coaches are in the young guys: Funchess, Brown, Byrd...

There seems to be quite a lot of talk about wanting to "strengthen the veteran presence in the room" and missing Cotchery last year, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[KB_fan]

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's still gotta be one of the lowest in the league I would think.

When you look at our WR, secondary, and OL units I would bet we're near the bottom of the league in payroll expenditures in all three units.

The majority of our money is tied up in QB, RB, DL, and LB.

Quickly looking at Spotrac, http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/

here's what I come up with re: our current spending compared to other teams.  Of course this is kind of silly to do right now on the cusp of free agency.... but for what it's worth:

Position:    Panthers spending ranking (current 2017 cap $ hit)

Offense      13   [CORRECTED]

QB              7   such a steal....!

WR             32

RB              5

TE               3

O-line         23

Tackle         21  [CORRECTED]

Guard        32

Center       2

 

Defense:  (Note this doesn't yet include Addison or Horton, so Dline numbers are not up to date)

Defense     21  [CORRECTED]

D-line         11 (covering 6 players, incl KK's estimated tag.  Addison & Horton not yet included)

DE              32  Counting Addison & Horton we'd probably be around 15th or 16th...

DT              3

LB              7

Secondary   31

CB             30

Safety       21

Spec Tm   2    OUCH.   There was some special teams improvement this past year, but wow.  This hurts.

 

[PantherCam213]

Great to hear you have some time in your schedule to help us grasp some of this stuff.  Numbers don't lie, we just need a numbers person to interpret them.

I've missed your threads.  Welcome back!

[Mr. Miagi]

3 hours ago, KB_fan said:

Hey all,

A few of you have been very kind to let me know you miss some of the data analysis I used to do, and in particular, to ask if I can do some similar roster analysis by position groups as I did last year in the offseason.  I'm just beginning to see quite a lot of light at the end of the tunnel in terms of a lighter workload with my job, after a pretty insane 6-8 months, and looking forward to doing some roster analysis very soon...

Toward that end, I was browsing around some of the Panthers pages at Spotrac tonight.  Spotrac is not a site I usually spend a lot of time on, except this time of year.   It's probably been 8 - 10 months since I've been over there.  It looks to me as if they've revised the site a bit.  I landed on a page which looked quite different from what I remembered, and which I found VERY VERY helpful in giving a quick "at-a-glance" overview of how things stand in terms of contracts & free agents, position by position.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/

Here are a couple of the facts that just JUMPED off the page at me.

Shocking Observation #1

 I was STUNNED to see how little we're paying for WR.  Of course Ted Ginn is a pending free agent, so this could change fairly soon if we re-sign him, but even so, we're investing much less at WR than ANY OTHER POSITION on the team, only 4.8 million contracted for this position right now for 2017, which is really surprising for a position where we usually have 5 or 6 players on the 53.  Heck, we're spending nearly twice as much for SPECIAL TEAMS than WR!  Yikes.

Looks like an open door for bringing in some new talent, which we sorely need.  I wonder if we have been spending near the least on WR in the league?  Might be interesting to research...  Maybe I just find this particularly shocking in comparison to the Antonio Brown signing. 1 player getting 4 times what our whole current WR corps is getting.  Wow.

 

Here's a closer look at the WRs on our Roster. 

This is clearly a position where we're back in re-build mode after high hopes last offseason that we were developing some good talent and stability after a few years of churning.  It didn't happen.  Yes, I think some of the guys like Damiere Byrd, Key Garrett, and Philly Brown still have lots of upside, but really, at least in terms of proven players, pretty much apart from KB we have a clean slate... Funch certainly is not yet proven.  He didn't have a good year in 2016.  I'm not as confident about him as I was following his rookie season...  Looking at the above, I really HOPE we do re-sign Ted Ginn for a reasonable amount.  YES, bring in new blood and competition too both via free agency & the draft, but without Ginn we would have HUGE holes at WR.

 

Shocking Observation #2:
Counting pending free agents, we currently have an INCREDIBLE total of 18 Olinemen on the roster, Yes, 18, including 8 tackles, and yet even amidst all those bodies we don't have much talent or any certainty at EITHER RT or LT.  NO CERTAINTY at all. 

 

Of course a lot of these guys are just camp bodies / practice squad guys and many may soon be gone..., but truly this is a position disaster, and it looks like our Front Office is just throwing up stuff onto the wall and hoping something sticks - or hoping they find a diamond in the manure pile. (Granted, they did a pretty good job sniffing out Andrew Norwell, and also Tyler Larsen as a potential backup Center looked very solid and rose from the heap.  Really hope we keep him... but Cs and Gs are much easier to find than franchise Left Tackles.)

We can't assume Oher will be back.  We MUST assume he's likely not going to play.  Remmers has proven to be a liability, (although I'm ok if we re-sign him as depth and potential back up at both RT and LT if D. Williams starts at RT in 2017.  At least Remmer's a better back up LT option than DAVID FOUCAULT!)

We've GOT to sign a proven vet during free agency to shore up LT.  MUST. MUST. MUST.  If Dave doesn't do it, I will be jumping on the Gettle-bashing bandwagon headfirst.

 

So, those are the two big things that jumped out at me browsing Spotrac tonight.  

Anyone else notice anything as you browse the team roster / contract situation?  Give a look-see then comment here.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/

 

So, you're pretty much telling me that DG is a fat cheap?

[j2sgam]

Rich Eisen was talkin something similar today in light of ABs new contract, but they focused on the Patriots... They said the entire NE WR Corp is less dollars than AB, so we're not alone. Off the top of my head from their show today... Gronk 4.5, Edelman 3M, Amendola topped the list at like 6M and the other 3 WRs being super cheap... 

 

Great info & insight, as usual, KB Fan... Glad we didn't lose you too, with LilSmitty retiring & all... Now if only NJPanthers12 would get his sources back......

[LinvilleGorge]

19 minutes ago, j2sgam said:

Rich Eisen was talkin something similar today in light of ABs new contract, but they focused on the Patriots... They said the entire NE WR Corp is less dollars than AB, so we're not alone. Off the top of my head from their show today... Gronk 4.5, Edelman 3M, Amendola topped the list at like 6M and the other 3 WRs being super cheap... 

 

Great info & insight, as usual, KB Fan... Glad we didn't lose you too, with LilSmitty retiring & all... Now if only NJPanthers12 would get his sources back......

The Pats might be onto something. They have an entire WR corps of undersized quicker than fast guys with great hands who most teams would classify as "slot only" guys. The thing is, they line those guys up all over the field and they get open and Brady gets them the ball. The thing about those 6'2" 38" vertical 4.4 flat 40 guys is that they end up getting PAID. Are they REALLY worth it? Not if you have Tom Brady and that NE offensive system.

[gorillamilitia13]

6 hours ago, KB_fan said:

Heck, we're spending nearly twice as much for SPECIAL TEAMS than WR!

Yikes.

Yikes is damn right my dude. Wow.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, gorillamilitia13 said:

Yikes is damn right my dude. Wow.

High dollar contracts at both P and K.

The sad part is that at times, I think I might be able to swat the ball with my dick as accurately as Gano can kick it.

[gorillamilitia13]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

High dollar contracts at both P and K.

The sad part is that at times, I think I might be able to swat the ball with my dick as accurately as Gano can kick it.

Forgot about Gano and Nortman's contracts, was just thinking of the guys that field. That kind of changes things. I don't think Gano is that bad but I do think that he isn't worth his contract. We can easily find a kicker that is at least just as good as Gano and/or with more potential for a lot less money.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, gorillamilitia13 said:

Forgot about Gano and Nortman's contracts, was just thinking of the guys that field. That kind of changes things. I don't think Gano is that bad but I do think that he isn't worth his contract. We can easily find a kicker that is at least just as good as Gano and/or with more potential for a lot less money.

Nortman is gone. It's Andy Lee now and he'll carry a $3.43M cap hit next season. Gano is a $3.85M cap hit.

My issue with Gano is that the higher stakes a kick is, the more likely he is to miss it. A relatively low pressure 50+ yarder? He's gonna put it right down the middle with plenty of room to spare. A late in a tight game 45 yarder? He's likely to shank it out of the stadium.

[RoaringRiot]

@KB_fan is awesome 

[LinvilleGorge]

42 minutes ago, stbugs said:

How are we 4th in tackle spending when Oher is 15th at $7M and Remmers made $2.5 and there are 11 tackles making more than $10M per year just by themselves. Maybe all the practice squad guys, but that's kind of a silly way to get to 4th although I question the validity of those numbers.

I don't get it either. I see that Spotrac has us ranked 4th in spending, but according to what I'm looking at we're actually 21st. The Eagles are 1st with just shy of $24.75M committed to the OT position. According to Spotrac, that makes them 25th. I'm not understanding their ranking system here.