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Change in offensive philosophy

UpstatePanther

By UpstatePanther,
in Carolina Panthers

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tiger7_88 Experienced

tiger7_88

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, gmonjimbo said:

Rivera mentioned more 2 back sets and using the TE as a lead blocker. Also talked about 2 TE sets and finding more creative ways to use Cam's legs i.e play action and roll outs. I think the biggest problem with our offense is a lack of easy completions or runs, everything feels like a grind. Cam completes a pass with a defender draped all over the receiver, Stewart completes a 3 yard run after breaking two tackles at the line of scrimmage. They have to add a slot WR and incorporate the RB and 2nd TE into the passing game more so that Cam has more options to throw to and easier passes to complete. Finally, having a TE and FB that can actually block will open up holes in the running game

And yet Genius Ron and Genius Mike's solution will be more blocking/less catching by Olsen and less passing (and no adding of simple, short completions) by Cam.

Well... NFL defenses are gonna love our move from a 1980's offense to a 1960's offense.

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tiger7_88 Experienced

tiger7_88

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14 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just unreal to me that going into Cam Newton's 7th NFL season we're just now realizing that maybe having him roll out might help compensate for being weak on the OL.

The reason we don't roll Cam out is its harder to execute the deep pass when doing so.

And thats what the Rivera/Shula offense is all about... 3-yard runs and heaving it 30+ yards downfield.  When running a roll-out, you necessarily MUST have crossing patterns as part of the package.  How often do you see our WRs run crossing patterns?

No, Rivera/Shula success depends on the long ball and rolling Cam distracts and diminishes that opportunity.

Ergo, Cam's health and brain integrity must be sacrificed to save Ron and Mike's jobs.  Same thing its been for the entire time Rivera and Shula have been here.  

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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6 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

And yet Genius Ron and Genius Mike's solution will be more blocking/less catching by Olsen and less passing (and no adding of simple, short completions) by Cam.

Well... NFL defenses are gonna love our move from a 1980's offense to a 1960's offense.

So pessimistic! Lol.

If they could actually pull it off, it would be beautiful to see. This should be an ol' schooler's dream!

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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1 minute ago, tiger7_88 said:

The reason we don't roll Cam out is its harder to execute the deep pass when doing so.

And thats what the Rivera/Shula offense is all about... 3-yard runs and heaving it 30+ yards downfield.  When running a roll-out, you necessarily MUST have crossing patterns as part of the package.  How often do you see our WRs run crossing patterns?

That's truth, but let's see what the evolution brings. 

No faith in the evolution!?

Seriously, it sounds like you're predicting a train wreck---a total waste of 2017! You're not the only one. 

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tiger7_88 Experienced

tiger7_88

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14 minutes ago, top dawg said:

So pessimistic! Lol.

If they could actually pull it off, it would be beautiful to see. This should be an ol' schooler's dream!

I'm as old school as it gets.  A beautifully-executed Wishbone offense makes my heart go pitter-patter.

Problem is, the NFL has legislated "old school" out by rule. Their rules very nature DEMAND that you go "new school" (pass the ball, score quickly, score more".

By insisting on a ground-control, clock-consuming offense, Rivera isn't smart enough to understand how that choice puts his team at a DISadvantage in today's NFL. 

Rivera still imagines between his ears that its still the days of Jim McMahon/Walter Payton or Dan Pastorini/Earl Campbell. 

The NFL has decided and insisted BY RULE that it ain't.  Not anymore.  Dinosaurs will evolve or die.  My opinion is that ol' Ron doesn't have evolving in him.

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Toomers Mentor

Toomers

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7 minutes ago, stbugs said:


My biggest issue and why I hate the "we were the number 1 scoring offense" argument in favor of Shula. It was smoke and mirrors sometimes. Most #1 scoring offenses are at the top in yards per play, they just beat defenses. We were #11 in yards per play. We were at the top in starting field position and we were way better than average in takeaways. We were efficient scoring but so much of that was turnovers and field position due to turnovers. That's why when we lost so many turnovers and the field position battle (as in deciding not to tackle a punt returner) we lost the Super Bowl.

Shula is terrible at situations. Just like Shanahan lost the Super Bowl with bad play calling at the end, we lost multiple games with stupid calls (Oakland, KC, Tampa, etc.).


Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

   Passing teams are often higher in YPP. ATL and TB(who was 3rd) had higher YPP than we did in 2015. You really want to argue their effectiveness over ours that year. Not to mention all the games we let off the gas. People want to act like 2015 didn't happen, but it did. 

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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Here are my ingredients for evolution on offense:

Matt Kalil and Whitworth or Vollmer  (or possibly Joeckel) at LT. Kyle Juszczyk at FB. Cruz, Woods in the slot. Luke Wilson at TE2.

Fournette in the first

Bolles in the second

(Kpassagnon in the third)

Chris Godwin (Zay Jones) in the third.

Jake Butt in the Fourth

 

 

 

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arieslibra1 Newbie

arieslibra1

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On 3/4/2017 at 0:47 PM, KillerKat said:

The 2015 offense has been figured out. That's what people don't understand, not even our own coaches. Shula will be the reason why Rivera will be fired next year.

I was really hoping Rivera got fired this year but oh well. I would have loved Kyle S in CAR. He could do wonders for Cam's fundamentals and help get the ball quicker out of Cam's hands. He did a great job with Ryan.

Maybe McDaniels comes next offseason.

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arieslibra1 Newbie

arieslibra1

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22 hours ago, Snake said:

And better personal. Like a real FB and someone who can play the slot role. Of course having a better LT and maybe a better RT needs to happen as well. There are many ways we can approach it and be successful.

DiMarco would be great in CAR. I think Williams can hold down RT. 

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Toomers Mentor

Toomers

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4 minutes ago, arieslibra1 said:

I was really hoping Rivera got fired this year but oh well. I would have loved Kyle S in CAR. He could do wonders for Cam's fundamentals and help get the ball quicker out of Cam's hands. He did a great job with Ryan.

Maybe McDaniels comes next offseason.

 What I find hilarious is a year ago, Kyle was getting a rep as a "QB killer" and McDaniels has been a disaster when he's not with Brady. 

Shanahan- same 5 starting OL all season, #1 offense

Shula- same 5 starting OL all season, #1 offense

 OCs are as good as what they have to work with. And every fanbase wants theirs gone. Go find a Falcon message board from 2015 and see what they thought of Kyle 

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CarolinaSock Contributor

CarolinaSock

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You guys have seen where Ron said he expects Cam to fight him in "evolving" the offense right? Does anyone not think maybe we call the patterns and plays we do because those are what Cam is comfortable with? Cam was praised over and over again for supposedly audibling constantly and calling great plays last year. Now this year Shula sucks and apparently Cam forgot how to audible? Short throws are a weakness of Cam's because it requires good ball placement without throwing it on a rope and touch which he struggles to consistently do well. So he's probably likely to avoid those throws or changing to plays consistently where many of his options are short throws.

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Snake Grand Master

Snake

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59 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 What I find hilarious is a year ago, Kyle was getting a rep as a "QB killer" and McDaniels has been a disaster when he's not with Brady. 

Shanahan- same 5 starting OL all season, #1 offense

Shula- same 5 starting OL all season, #1 offense

 OCs are as good as what they have to work with. And every fanbase wants theirs gone. Go find a Falcon message board from 2015 and see what they thought of Kyle 

ATL did major upgrades to there Oline in 2 years. While keeping a group together is important it is also important to keep talent there.

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Toomers Mentor

Toomers

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1 minute ago, Snake said:

ATL did major upgrades to there Oline in 2 years. While keeping a group together is important it is also important to keep talent there.

  Exactly. Amazing how much better a coach is with a quality OL. They also were able to get a LT with a top 6 pick. And sign an OL like Mack. Neither of which was possible for us. We resigned Oher and had the same line. Can't predict injuries. 

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Snake Grand Master

Snake

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1 minute ago, Toomers said:

  Exactly. Amazing how much better a coach is with a quality OL. They also were able to get a LT with a top 6 pick. And sign an OL like Mack. Neither of which was possible for us. We resigned Oher and had the same line. Can't predict injuries. 

Our problems started game one when we added absolutely no one to stop the Blitz Denver used on us in the Superbowl. Dave takes that blame.

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