NFL investigation is NOT ending

[Woodie]

2 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

A lot of comments that would have been considered complementary to women a few decades ago are now grounds for administrative action or termination. 

Even by those antiquated standards, J.R. appears to have gone beyond the realm of decency.  Decades of deference by his office subordinates likely contributed to his sense of invulnerability.

I know that I don't compliment women like I would if I weren't afraid of looking like a creep or that I'm hitting on them...no matter how innocent I mean it.  Just like as a teacher, I don't allow myself to be in the room alone with any student or even a female teacher with the door closed.  You have to be extra cautious these days.  

[AggieLean]

Good. 

If there was wrong doing, it needs to be uncovered. 

[Woodie]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah.  Even 20 years ago, I don't think it was okay to ask women if you could shave their legs.

You know, even if I were a creep and pervert, I wouldn't even know how to ask if I could shave a woman's legs.  It just boggles my mind what some people do. 

[csx]

It's not a crime to know that an old man asks to shave legs or touches boobies when fastening seat belts.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

13 minutes ago, Woodie said:

I know that I don't compliment women like I would if I weren't afraid of looking like a creep or that I'm hitting on them...no matter how innocent I mean it.  Just like as a teacher, I don't allow myself to be in the room alone with any student or even a female teacher with the door closed.  You have to be extra cautious these days.  

Yes you do.

As an authority figure, it is almost impossible these days to be left alone with a subordinate or child without leaving yourself vulnerable to claims of inappropriate behavior, regardless of gender.

Those claims, even without supporting evidence, might be enough to ruin an otherwise promising career.

Note:  In J.R.s case, with multiple claims of inappropriate behavior, it seems pretty clear the above situation doesn't apply.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, csx said:

It's not a crime to know that an old man asks to shave legs or touches boobies when fastening seat belts.

it's technically not a crime to be creepy either, but that was enough to cost an owner control of his team.

In the current political environment, being a PR problem is enough to cost you your job.

Also, last I checked the NFL doesn't prosecute crimes.  They have, however, been known to discipline players, coaches and team officials.

[Woodie]

2 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Yes you do.

As an authority figure, it is almost impossible these days to be left alone with a subordinate or child without leaving yourself vulnerable to claims of inappropriate behavior, regardless of gender.

Those claims, even without supporting evidence, might be enough to ruin an otherwise promising career.

Note:  In J.R.s case, with multiple claims of inappropriate behavior, it seems pretty clear the above situation doesn't apply.

Yeah.  If you hear one allegation, it's concerning, but you take a wait and see approach to determine the truth.  But when there are multiple allegations all from different sources, then you have a pattern, and it's pretty hard to ignore the likelihood that there is probably some fire with that smoke.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

6 minutes ago, csx said:

It's not a crime to know that an old man asks to shave legs or touches boobies when fastening seat belts.

Having knowledge of sexual harassment in the workplace and failing to report it is enough to cost someone their job.

I suspect JR won't be the last one in the Panthers organization to lose their situation over this. 

[Woodie]

9 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Yes you do.

As an authority figure, it is almost impossible these days to be left alone with a subordinate or child without leaving yourself vulnerable to claims of inappropriate behavior, regardless of gender.

Those claims, even without supporting evidence, might be enough to ruin an otherwise promising career.

Note:  In J.R.s case, with multiple claims of inappropriate behavior, it seems pretty clear the above situation doesn't apply.

Just to give an example of this, my dad was also a teacher, and this exact thing happened to a guy he taught with.  

The teacher failed a girl on a test.  After class, she went to talk to him to try and get him to change the grade.  She told him that she was going to get in trouble if she fails another test.  Well, the teacher said she had plenty of time to study for the test, so he wouldn't change her grade.  That night she went home and told her parents that he tried to sexually assault her, and that she was scared to go back to school.  As a result, the teacher was fired, and a police investigation was started.  Of course, during all this, the local newspaper was reporting that the teacher had assaulted a female student, so he couldn't even go out without having to deal with people treating him like a pervert.

Long story short, the police eventually got her to admit that she lied and just wanted to get the teacher fired so she wouldn't get in trouble for failing another test.  But even though he was exonerated, the school district wouldn't hire him back, and since there was an investigation on his record, he couldn't get a teaching job anywhere else.  The last my dad heard, he was doing some menial job just to pay the bills. 

This has been a cautionary tale for me in the classroom.  

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Having knowledge of sexual harassment in the workplace and failing to report it is enough to cost someone their job.

I suspect JR won't be the last one in the Panthers organization to lose their situation over this. 

Granted, they wouldn't necessarily be looking to get everybody who might have known, but people in positions of power could be targets.

Someone made a good point on this to me, though.  What Richardson was doing tended to occur in the business offices.  The football people might not have known as much because they work in different areas.

Would that fly for someone who works as closely with Richardson as Marty Hurney?  Unknown.  And based on the stories, there do seem to be an awful lot of people who were aware of what was going on.

But Woodie is right.  All of this depends on how vigorously the NFL actually pursues the matter.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Just to give an example of this, my dad was also a teacher, and this exact thing happened to a guy he taught with.  

The teacher failed a girl on a test.  After class, she went to talk to him to try and get him to change the grade.  She told him that she was going to get in trouble if she fails another test.  Well, the teacher said she had plenty of time to study for the test, so he wouldn't change her grade.  That night she went home and told her parents that he tried to sexually assault her, and that she was scared to go back to school.  As a result, the teacher was fired, and a police investigation was started.  Of course, during all this, the local newspaper was reporting that the teacher had assaulted a female student, so he couldn't even go out without having to deal with people treating him like a pervert.

Long story short, the police eventually got her to admit that she lied and just wanted to get the teacher fired so she wouldn't get in trouble for failing another test.  But even though he was exonerated, the school district wouldn't hire him back, and since there was an investigation on his record, he couldn't get a teaching job anywhere else.  The last my dad heard, he was doing some menial job just to pay the bills. 

This has been a cautionary tale for me in the classroom.  

I've heard similar stories.  It's a sad truth that you don't have to be guilty of something to suffer the consequences for it.

That said, I think there's enough evidence in what we've seen so far to convince me that Richardson is indeed guilty.

And yes, at heart he's basically an old pervert, not a serial rapist. But he's an old pervert who abused his position of power, and you can't do that.

So here we are.

[Woodie]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've heard similar stories.  It's a sad truth that you don't have to be guilty of something to suffer the consequences for it.

That said, I think there's enough evidence in what we've seen so far to convince me that Richardson is indeed guilty.

And yes, at heart he's basically an old pervert, not a serial rapist. But he's an old pervert who abused his position of power, and you can't do that.

So here we are.

The thing I wonder about is what did he do that was so bad that he needed a NDA to cover it up?  Everything else makes him look creepy and like a pervert.  But none of that is serious enough to warrant a legal document to keep it out of the light of day.  I also wonder if it was just him, or were there other people involved?  As much as I wonder about it, I doubt we'll ever find out, though.  

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Granted, they wouldn't necessarily be looking to get everybody who might have known, but people in positions of power could be targets.

Someone made a good point on this to me, though.  What Richardson was doing tended to occur in the business offices.  The football people might not have known as much because they work in different areas.

Would that fly for someone who works as closely with Richardson as Marty Hurney?  Unknown.

But Woodie is right.  All of this depends on how vigorously the NFL actually pursues the matter.

The close relationship between JR and Hurney has me somewhat suspicious as to how far and wide the repercussions will spread.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And yes, at heart he's basically an old pervert, not a serial rapist. But he's an old pervert who abused his position of power, and you can't do that.

People like JR used to be called "dirty old men" and usually not much, if anything, was done about their behavior.

Our former distinguished president, George Herbert Walker Bush, (among others) is a dirty old man too.  He has this one joke he likes to tell when there is a pretty woman standing next to him for photos:  

GHWB:  Know who my favorite magician is? "David cop-a-feel".  The former president then proceeds to grab the woman's butt.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/10/27/another-woman-accuses-george-h-w-bush-of-groping-and-making-a-david-cop-a-feel-joke/?utm_term=.6c0689a69af4

The times, they are a changin'.