Batum Conundrum

[Proudiddy]

 

 

So, we have all been trashing Batum all season and have all been eagerly looking to move on from him.  But, the comments range from similar sentiments as I just expressed to this quote Batum gave actually being directed at Dwight.  Someone in the comments said that this quote, combined with other recent interviews Batum has done recently seem to be taking shots at Dwight...  i haven't been keeping up with interviews or anything really once we blew our chances at the playoffs and I only really checked box scores at that point.  But, I criticized Dwight early and often this season until many here convinced me he wasn't the problem because he was producing.  I argued that his numbers couldn't be trusted because everywhere he's been since Orlando, his presence just had a negative effect on the locker room and team chemistry.  His hometown teammates reportedly celebrated when we traded for him.  I thought that spoke volumes...   but, many convinced me he wasn't the problem the further the year went along, and I bought in.  Even when I watched parts of games, he didn't seem to be pouting or trying to show anyone up like he did earlier in the year, so I figured our failures were for other reasons.

Now, reading some of the speculation in those comments, I'm worried our problems run deeper than just Batum, Marvin, MKG, Frank, not playing Monk, etc.  I've stated repeatedly, when we traded for Dwight I was certain, on paper, we were a top 4 team in the East.  Kemba has another great year, Dwight produces, but everyone else sucks...  how could that be?

Look, this team isn't talent-laden, but it was good enough for the upper-tier of the East, if they could play together.  If Dwight wore on his teammates, it doesn't fully excuse Batum's shitty season, but it makes me truly wonder if, outside of Clifford, was Batum the real problem?  I'm now concerned we may have to do a complete tear down outside of Kemba.  Or if it was really Dwight, do we move him and keep Batum?  Do we still move Batum?  Either way, I think both guys trade value is next to nothing, so we'd likely have to take an L on anything we move them for.  Your thoughts?

[AppHeel]

12 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Look, this team isn't talent-laden, but it was good enough for the upper-tier of the East, if they could play together.  If Dwight wore on his teammates, it doesn't fully excuse Batum's shitty season, but it makes me truly wonder if, outside of Clifford, was Batum the real problem?  I'm now concerned we may have to do a complete tear down outside of Kemba.  Or if it was really Dwight, do we move him and keep Batum?  Do we still move Batum?  Either way, I think both guys trade value is next to nothing, so we'd likely have to take an L on anything we move them for.  Your thoughts?

Dwight definitely produced and that's tricky. His production was great, but the usage on offense was way too high. I think Dwight would have been much better suited to lead the second unit and give MCW a stat stuffing force to feed while letting Kemba, Nic, etc operate with a healthy Cody at center. Look, I like Dwight, I think he was a difference maker and I sincerely believe that he got along well with the staff and the team. Maybe it's bc he was playing a ton, but idk. I just think that in today's NBA and based on where he is physically in his career, it doesn't make sense for him to be the 2nd option or option 1B behind Kemba. But, by all means, make him the complete focus of the bench unit. 

Batum was trash this season. Definitely not living up to the contract. And look, I get it. He missed the preseason with the elbow thing, but if you're getting $120M you have to produce. Poor shot selection, turnovers, etc. Unacceptable. 

Unfortunately, the NBA contracts are fully guaranteed and you can't just cut someone like you can in the NFL and get CAP relief. Dwight is technically an expiring so someone may want him in a trade, but he's expensive. This roster might be stuck for one more season unless Mitch is willing to deal Kemba in a salary dump.

[Zaximus]

Howard was a warrior, I can't blame him at all for this.

It was Clifford honestly.     More than Batum.     Guy is clueless and loves vets too much.       Even with Batum, this team with a better coach makes playoffs.

[Eazy-E]

Batum is the problem. I watched at least 80% of the games this season and when Batum was out of the line up it was like watching a different team. 

[WOW!!]

Maybe Batum needs to look at a mirror.. Especially when talking about problems with the team..

Being 6'8 with his supposedly vast skill sets.. You should be more than a role player.. 

[JakeDel5674]

1 minute ago, WOW!! said:

Maybe Batum needs to look at a mirror.. Especially when talking about problems with the team..

Being 6'8 with his supposedly vast skill sets.. You should be more than a role player.. 

Yeah, OP has for sure hated on Howard for far too long. Batum is fuging garbage. If Batum wasn't trash it would be a different story. 

[davos]

There's a handful of lenses in which to view this team, but we need to find a way, any way, to rid ourselves of Batum regardless. 

[SOJA]

I have a funny feeling in a few weeks/months we will discover Nic has been pushing for a trade out of the organization to a contender. 

I think between us being awful this year, Cliff getting canned and the addition of Dwight (who I think Nic just can't stand). 

Now before one of you jumps all over me, I'm not saying Batum is blameless in this. He had an awful season. I think it's best for both parties if we trade him. The question is to who? Who has the cap space to take him on? 

Chicago maybe? But they aren't a contender. The Blazers? Definitely could be. Maybe the Kings? Again terrible team. Phx? Maybe they could be on the upswing especially if they get the number one pick this year. 

It's just going to be hard to trade him unless we include Kemba in the deal. 

But in the end that's probably what's best for our franchise moving forward. 

[Ace_Aladdin]

15 hours ago, bull123 said:

Did batum ever take a shot with less than 5 min left in the game?....he would just suddenly disappear 

he is a good guy off the bench...that’s it

Still taking the L xxx

[davos]

2 hours ago, SOJA said:

I have a funny feeling in a few weeks/months we will discover Nic has been pushing for a trade out of the organization to a contender. 

I think between us being awful this year, Cliff getting canned and the addition of Dwight (who I think Nic just can't stand). 

Now before one of you jumps all over me, I'm not saying Batum is blameless in this. He had an awful season. I think it's best for both parties if we trade him. The question is to who? Who has the cap space to take him on? 

Chicago maybe? But they aren't a contender. The Blazers? Definitely could be. Maybe the Kings? Again terrible team. Phx? Maybe they could be on the upswing especially if they get the number one pick this year. 

It's just going to be hard to trade him unless we include Kemba in the deal. 

But in the end that's probably what's best for our franchise moving forward. 

Chicago wouldn't really need him, I think they're trending up with a solid young squad.  

He could return to RIP City.  I'd be willing to not get much in return; maybe just take on a mildly bad contract (Leonard) and a future 2nd.  We just need to free the cap and get better with subtraction.  

ATL could be interesting...they've got Tyler Dorsey in the development stage but outside of Collins and Schroeder, that team is sh*t and needs role players.  They've got the cap this offseason.  I'd be willing to send Batum for sprinkles.

[SOJA]

19 minutes ago, davos said:

Chicago wouldn't really need him, I think they're trending up with a solid young squad.  

He could return to RIP City.  I'd be willing to not get much in return; maybe just take on a mildly bad contract (Leonard) and a future 2nd.  We just need to free the cap and get better with subtraction.  

ATL could be interesting...they've got Tyler Dorsey in the development stage but outside of Collins and Schroeder, that team is sh*t and needs role players.  They've got the cap this offseason.  I'd be willing to send Batum for sprinkles.

I agree if we can unload Batum without getting rid of Kemba I'd take a minimal return on him. His contract is just such an albatross. 

[SOJA]

7 minutes ago, bull123 said:

We could just suck it up and bring a $20m guy off the bench...that’s all he is, a good bench guy

That would kind of go against my grand plan of us tanking next year to get RJ Barrett 

A future of Monk + Bacon + Round 1 pick this year + Barrett + assets we could get for Kemba looks very promising 

[davos]

6 hours ago, SOJA said:

That would kind of go against my grand plan of us tanking next year to get RJ Barrett 

A future of Monk + Bacon + Round 1 pick this year + Barrett + assets we could get for Kemba looks very promising 

Teams have done it but it wouldn't allow us to do much unless we unload Marvin or MKG.

As a set up to a blow up, I would be finding a way to unload Batum ($24mil, his contract was back-ended), Marvin ($13 mil, he's been solid, but funds should be reallocated with this youth), and MKG ($13 mil Experiment=over).

We have tradable assets in Lamb and Zeller with decent contracts (Lamb) and a "maybe" tradable with Frank.  We could latch any of those to one of the previous 3 for an ok package and get us at the least around $20 mil more in cap space.  Then that opens things up for a younger UFA signing with all-pro potential like a VanVleet or maybe get a mid-career proven like Favors or Tyreke Evans.  I also think Thaddeus Young could be a great part of a winning team.  Those are the names I hope we check out if we clear some room.  

The potential RFAs who are fringe max contracts are the REALLY intriguing ones for me.  Chris Paul (given his age, may not get max and could be a bridge), Aaron Gordon, Jabari Parker, Zach Lavine --at least one of those guys will not be with his current team come late Summer.  We would most likely need to ditch Howard or Kemba for the new contract.  This will basically come down to if Dwight still has value somewhere or if we're willing to part with Kemba.

TL;DR

In a nutshell, unless we really find some crazy good cap clearing deal for Dwight or get some great assets back for Kemba, we need to unload these role players with starter salaries and assemble a new crew around Kemba, Monk, Bacon, Willy...(& Dwight for one more season). The rest are expendable.  

 

 

[davos]

I'm going to continue babbling:

The guy I've warmed up to this draft: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.  PG Kentucky 6'7 185

The dynamic backcourt is the new NBA and if Monk and SGA both hit their stride, that could be a top duo in the league and fun as hell to watch.  I personally like his game more than Sexton or Young.  He's also got the size and is just one of the damn smoothest players you'll find.  Reminds me of one of my favorite players growing up in Penny Hardaway, who also happened to be his coach for a bit at Memphis-East.  I just don't see Trae Young or Collin Sexton in Charlotte.  

Mikal Bridges is the popular name (who I've been a fan of) but I totally see a team well built getting him as an important bowtie like Cleveland or Philly.  He's a compliment to a star, not the star.  Miles B. and Knox are others with size and athleticism, also because we're in dire need of a 3 who can score, but I'd rather draft for the pure star upside and the overall upgrade.  We don't really have anything set up long term at any position right now.

Look for provens and upside without selling the barn.  This is like a stabilizing ground for either a soft reboot or pre-structural work for the demo.  Find certain components while you gut the rest.  

I'm looking at the upside this year...we need a star and they're found beyond the top-5 more and more recently.