“Am I watching the same team as y’all” Part 2 (message for the homers edition)

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I think you greatly over estimate the amount of talent we had on the roster in some of those years.  Once Steve Smith was cut, our receiver corps wasn't that good.  Stewart was a solid running back, but not a superstar.  Cam is a top 10 qb, but at least on the offensive side, I think most objective observers would say that our talent level was well below that of other playoff teams.  

Maybe at skill positions, though Ginn was better than he got credit for and Stewart was still pretty good. Plus we had a healthy Olsen and a decent backup in Ed Dickson.

Up front was where we won some of our games though. An OL of Oher, Norwell, Kalil, and Turner was pretty good, and Remmers wasn't as bad as some claimed.

[saints4lifeagain]

8 hours ago, Carolina Cajun said:

Mystery team since 2011's record vs playoff teams (regular season)

2011 - 5-1

2012 - 1-5

2013 - 2-3

2014 - 3-5

2015 - 0-6

2016 - 1-6

2017 - 5-5

Total in the same time span 17-31.  That team I just looked into was the Saints and no one claims that Payton is a bad coach.  FWIW, I don't think Payton is a great coach or a bad coach either, I think he's average.  I just think this is just more evidence that playoff teams are that for a reason, they are hard to beat.  

Payton wasn't the coach in 2012.

[t96]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I disagree.

Disagree with the idea of lesser competition as well. Having thirty-two teams leaves everybody's talent pool pretty thin.

Bottom Line: You can't rightly compare that era of football with this one without some pretty stringent qualifying factors.

The league then vs. now is irrelevant. The league for Landry years 1-7 was the same for him year 12 when he won the SB for the first time. If Landry can go 11 years without winning and then win 1 with nothing changing, then why can't Rivera go 7 or 8 or whatever years without winning before winning 1 with nothing changing?

Rivera has already proven he can win in this league against top competition in the regular season and playoffs and has gotten to a SB. If you can get there once you can get there again and once you're there anything can happen.

And the SB loss came down to just a few plays ultimately, and those plays were not Rivera's fault. The execution was not there that game. It's one game and if it was played another 10 times we probably win at least 7-8 out of those 10 with that team of ours vs that same Broncos team.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, t96 said:

The league then vs. now is irrelevant. The league for Landry years 1-7 was the same for him year 12 when he won the SB for the first time. If Landry can go 11 years without winning and then win 1 with nothing changing, then why can't Rivera go 7 or 8 or whatever years without winning before winning 1 with nothing changing?

Rivera has already proven he can win in this league against top competition in the regular season and playoffs and has gotten to a SB. If you can get there once you can get there again and once you're there anything can happen.

And the SB loss came down to just a few plays ultimately, and those plays were not Rivera's fault. The execution was not there that game. It's one game and if it was played another 10 times we probably win at least 7-8 out of those 10 with that team of ours vs that same Broncos team.

The state of the league is definitely relevant. The rest rehashes territory we've already covered.

[t96]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The state of the league is definitely relevant. 

Provide a compelling argument. 

[saints4lifeagain]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And no free agency, and rules that didn't favor scoring like you have now.

Not so sure that the scoring part favors into your argument, but the salary cap era is completely different. Agreed that comparing the 2 eras is completely impossible. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, t96 said:

Provide a compelling argument. 

Already have.

You wanna believe Rivera can win a Super Bowl because he "almost" did (that's a pretty generous analysis  but okay). I can point you to the names of several guys who got there and not only never won one. A decent number of them never even made it back.

It's not that simple.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, saints4lifeagain said:

Not so sure that the scoring part favors into your argument, but the salary cap era is completely different. Agreed that comparing the 2 eras is completely impossible. 

Valid. Pre and post salary cap are virtually different universes. I'd say pre/post free agency are too.

[*FreeFua*]

8 hours ago, t96 said:

Look at these same stats for every other coach in the league right now. Outside of Belichick I doubt many are much better than Ron.

Mike McCarthy

Andy Reid

Bruce Arians

Sean Payton

Mike Tomlin

Dan Quinn

Pete Carroll

 

[t96]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Already have.

You wanna believe Rivera can win a Super Bowl because he "almost" did (that's a pretty generous analysis  but okay). I can point you to the names of several guys who got there and not only never won one. A decent number of them never even made it back.

It's not that simple.

You're the one trying to make an argument that Rivera CAN'T win a Super Bowl. That is completely ridiculous. I'm not saying he WILL win one, but that there is no reason to think that he's incapable of winning one. It's on you to actually provide some kind of reasonable and logical argument based on objective facts that support your argument because you're the one trying to make the point. You've yet to provide anything resembling that whatsoever. 

[Jon Snow]

I'm not going to be satisfied until the team goes undefeated and brings the Lombardi to BOA.  You folks can settle for less if you want to but I'm not listening to that noise.

#KEEP POUNDING!

[t96]

26 minutes ago, saints4lifeagain said:

Payton wasn't the coach in 2012.

Even still:

16-26 for Payton .381

15-24-1 for Rivera .3875

 

17 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Mike McCarthy

Andy Reid

Bruce Arians

Sean Payton

Mike Tomlin

Dan Quinn

Pete Carroll

 

See above, I'm not going to go through all these guys but from the numbers already given in this thread, Rivera is better than Payton, and if you were wrong on that you certainly could be on others as well. And Arians isn't even in the league any more. Even if the others are right, that is just 6 active coaches ahead of Rivera.... 

[*FreeFua*]

5 minutes ago, t96 said:

Even still:

16-26 for Payton .381

15-24-1 for Rivera .3875

 

See above, I'm not going to go through all these guys but from the numbers already given in this thread, Rivera is better than Payton, and if you were wrong on that you certainly could be on others as well. And Arians isn't even in the league any more. Even if the others are right, that is just 6 active coaches ahead of Rivera.... 

Um...

Remind me which year Sean Payton became coach of the Saints and then tell me why you decided to start at the year 2011. 

If you don’t even know what year Payton became head coach then who knows what else you’re wrong about...

Are we just throwing out all his numbers prior to 2011 because it helps fit your argument orrrrrrr

[Doc Holiday]

 

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

Which is exactly what you do every time you want to post something. If it was anyone else I would’ve just replied in your thread but I wanted you to see just how dumb it looks to do it this way. 

Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, Dan Quinn, Pete Carroll, Bellicheck all have better winning percentages than Rivera in this category and those are the only ones I bothered to look up. 

 

 

you really put Dan Quinn up there? lol the other 4 I'd say they are better than Rivera, in part because they all have championships, a few of them have many, but Dan Quinn? really had to search pretty hard if you felt the need to include him lol