Ron Rivera blew all three timeouts on a single point-less drive in a fourth quarter one-score game against a divisional rival

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, PntherPryd said:

I mean, don't you think this qualifies as "Over-Reaction Monday"?

obviously the saints had our number in 2017 but we split in 2016 and swept them in 2015.   Plus splits in 2014, 2013 and we swept them again in 2012 so I don't get the historical elevation of Payton as some great game day manager.

Chris Manhertz isn't much of a receiver. Is it unfair to say that today because we won the game yesterday?

Payton's definitely a better gameday coach than Ron, but that's not the only key to winning. If it were, the Patriots would be unbeatable because Belichick is probably the best gameday coach in the league. Yet Rivera has wins against him.

Sometimes you win on coaching. Sometimes you win because of game planning. Sometimes you win on talent. Sometimes you win on luck. Sometimes you win because one of your guys does something amazing. Etc. Etc.

And mind you, you can lose for all the same reasons, and more.

Overreaction? No. It's just evaluation. Just because we win doesn't mean everything is rainbows and unicorns.

[sharkkiller]

2 hours ago, JARROD said:

One thing or a couple of things I saw with the Rams and Saints game that stand out--

The Rams get to the line fast for plays ala Chip Kelly,... Sean Payton got his team back in to score before the half and so did the Rams with a quick fieldgoal,..

They dont waste timeouts,.. the Seans use them as a weapon, have teams that play with a sense of urgency when they need to move fast.

Thats the element that is still missing from the Panthers I feel. Not only situational headcoaching-- but having the team READY to play in those situations, namely when the urgency is on the line.

Cam and the defense have shown up late in games and gotten us back in or won at key moments, but many of those key moments were caused by early failures or lack of the situational preparedness I mentioned.

Its an element we really have not had and need.

The Rams get to the line quick because McVeigh makes the adjustments through the headset up until it cuts off. Goff does not make very many adjustments himself.

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, PntherPryd said:

How many teams would give their left nut to have playoff trips in 4 of the last 5 years and a SB appearance?

Honestly do not get the "fire Rivera" crowd.  

I'm not in the "fire Rivera" crowd, but as mentioned before I'm firmly in the "question Rivera" crowd.

In that vein, what I "honestly do not get" is the "hey, we should be satisfied with just being good" crowd.

"Good" was good enough for Jerry Richardson, but we now have an owner who comes from a team with a tradition of winning championships, not  just being happy to be in the race.

if we were to go another ten or twenty years without winning a championship, are people still going to be sitting here saying "well hey, at least we've had some good seasons"?

I know one guy who probably won't be.

We really need to get out of the "this is good enough" mindset. That should have left with Richardson.

[trueblade]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Payton has Rivera's defense pretty well figured out at this point.

Mind you, you can still win games where you're outcoached if a lot of other things go in your favor, but tain't easy.

What's funny to me is as a DC, Rivera was positively deadly to elite quarterbacks. He owned Peyton Manning like no one else did. And even early on here he knew exactly how to knock Drew Brees off his game. That's why one of my expectations when we hired him was that we'd be very effective against the higher echelon passers.

Sadly though, I haven't seen that kind of magic in a long time, and I don't know where it went.

Before McDermott took the Bills job, Panthers were 6-2 versus Saints. Since? 1-3. I think I know where it went.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, trueblade said:

Before McDermott took the Bills job, Panthers were 6-2 versus Saints. Since? 1-3. I think I know where it went.

Fair point.

McDermott getting a head coaching job seems to have had less than stellar results on both ends, though I don't know how much of what's going on in Buffalo is McDermott and how much is Beane.

[MasterAwesome]

Let me get this straight...

You made this same reactionary thread during the game yesterday, which got locked...so today, after being able to mull it over for an entire day, you make the same exact misinformed thread, attributing all of those timeouts to our head coach? Is this one of those “he’s our head coach so he’s solely responsible for everything that goes wrong” kind of reasonings?

[Definitely Not Trolling]

3 hours ago, PhillyB said:

Ron Rivera isn't a bad coach but there's a reason he's got a reputation for being situationally weak. He deserves all the criticism he gets for it.

Thankfully offensive talent bailed him out. I am all for complementary football - we saw it played out yesterday in textbook form - but I fear Ron Rivera's achilles heel is a coaching weakness that can never complement weaknesses in other areas and pick the team up.

Let's hope we're good enough to never rely on it.

 

Hey Nancy, get the facts right before you want to gossip.

[PhillyB]

25 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Let me get this straight...

You made this same reactionary thread during the game yesterday, which got locked...so today, after being able to mull it over for an entire day, you make the same exact misinformed thread, attributing all of those timeouts to our head coach? Is this one of those “he’s our head coach so he’s solely responsible for everything that goes wrong” kind of reasonings?

No, it's not the same thread, which was a reaction to observations but not reactionary (which by definition is emotional-fueled and lacking logic or substance, which mine was not.)

Have you heard the expression "poo rolls downhill?" It's a common term in the military that refers to a dynamic of discipline wherein a commanding officer gives his immediate inferior poo for something that gets messed up, that inferior gives his inferior poo, all the way downhill until the offending party has been reached.

poo also rolls uphill. That means the guy at the top bears ultimate responsibility for the performance of everyone under his command.

The analysis that Ron didn't personally call time outs on all of the questioned plays is accurate and should be taken into consideration. But the head coach is responsible for the discipline of his players and ultimately timeouts getting wasted falls on his shoulders, whether it's because he misused them, his OC didn't get the play call in on time, or his undisciplined players slouched in a time crunch. 

This is not a new criticism, follows a longstanding trend, and is corroborated by countless other anecdotes, and therefore is neither reactionary nor insignificant an observation. Don't comment if you have nothing to say.

[Mr. Scot]

Most of the criticisms that detractors have of Rivera aren't "new".

That's part of what frustrates people.

[KillerKat]

That was embarrassing 

[FugAllY'all]

Ron Rivera is one of the best coaches in the league, period. At least top 10, maybe top 5. People like to focus on schemes, play calling, clock management, whatever the fug, but that's not a coaches #1 job. A coaches #1 job is to be a leader of men, a manager of emotions, and to be able to work with his players to get the best out of them.

Belichick, who mostly gets credited for his masterful tactics during a game, we will never see 99% of what he's done to make the Patriots what they are. It's about how the players conduct themselves during the week. How the practices are run, when to dial up or pull back on the physicality of workouts, and where is each player's trigger to get them to go (remember Philly vs Corey? sometimes it's just dumb poo like that). 

For this year, the example is Eric Reid. The way he took the lead in that situation, and everyone followed, has been special to watch. The Panthers have leaned into Reid's political stance, just watch the video that was posted on Panthers.com. That is 100% Rivera. And what have we gotten out of him? Simply some of the best safety play in the league for basically free. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, FugAllY'all said:

Ron Rivera is one of the best coaches in the league, period. At least top 10, maybe top 5. People like to focus on schemes, play calling, clock management, whatever the fug, but that's not a coaches #1 job. A coaches #1 job is to be a leader of men, a manager of emotions, and to be able to work with his players to get the best out of them.

Whether you think it's the number one job or not though, a head coach has to do all of those things to a certain level of competence to be successful.

Most head coaches are better at some aspects than others, but if you're bad at enough of them, even if you're good at others, you're going to really struggle to win a championship (and quite possibly to keep your job).

[TheRed]

If Ron can stay out of his own way we have the roster to make a run for a championship. But he has to consistently maintain that.

The majority of fans here that I've observed want to see Rivera hoist up a Lombardi Trophy. They just want him to keep evolving.

[top dawg]

Et Tú, PhillyB?