This Was Always Going to Happen???

[SetfreexX]

I think we all felt pretty good about the offense coming into this season, the excitement around guys like Moore, Samuel, and CMC was legitimate, even Ian Thomas was giving many a chance to feel relief about the TE position in the long run. We finally had a young core of dynamic skill position players. 

However...

Even with the selection of Donte' Jackson, and Rashaan Gaulden, not many felt ease looking at the secondary moving forward and with a small speed rusher in Haynes (think Eric Norwood, and Everette Brown) a lot of confidence wasn't inspired on the DL as far as pass rush goes. 

So again we were left with ''old'' edge rushers, and were once again counting on Short to collapse the pocket at the age of 29...Addison was coming into the season at 30, and Peppers was an off-season surgery participant at age 38. I think we all knew we had ABSOLUTELY no depth on the DL, and you can't convince me the coaches believed -- Horton, Obada, and Haynes were the answers. Age just caught up to this team, and it happened overnight right around the 1/4 point in the season even before the loss streak IMO. 

Being one of the top teams at ''generating'' pressure doesn't lead to sacks, if you can't get home, and consistently affect the throws it doesn't matter, now some of this is scheme, I don't think all the soft coverage outside gives that older defensive line and it's inexperienced depth a real chance to do anything consistently. And since we don't bench veterans (I'm looking at Adams) we can't play Reid as the box safety, and Gaulden is never gonna see the field as a free safety. 

We just got too old, too fast at too many prominent positions, you have to have a S that can cover the slot / TE (Gaulen played nickel / Reid has TE cover ability) so I think the amount of time Adams gets handicaps us from a ''what we can call'' stand point on defense, I mean seriously, the man is 39 years old at safety in the NFL, in what world does this happen, I don't care how ''savvy'' you are, slow is slow. TD is also approaching that more and more each year, there are plays we saw him make just two, three, four seasons ago (think the leaping INT vs GB) and essentially he's been a non-factor as well as he's assumed his starting role again. 

So when you look at the issues, and consider age trends in the NFL we handicapped ourselves, guys that are 30+ are going to consistently trend down, even with the ''outlier'' seasons where they play outside of their age, it always catches up. 

We're not good enough on either side of the ball to beat NO twice, I think we ''can'' beat CLE, and ATL, but I see us finishing 1-3 down the stretch. We're not gonna sniff Ryan or Brees, both have good offensive lines, quality receivers on the outside, and both have HB tandems that feature two starting caliber runners. I'm honestly not 100% sure we can beat CLE if we fell to TB, and DET. 

So I look back at everything and I just have to ask....was this always going to happen...

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

I think we all felt pretty good about the offense coming into this season, the excitement around guys like Moore, Samuel, and CMC was legitimate, even Ian Thomas was giving many a chance to feel relief about the TE position in the long run. We finally had a young core of dynamic skill position players. 

However...

Even with the selection of Donte' Jackson, and Rashaan Gaulden, not many felt ease looking at the secondary moving forward and with a small speed rusher in Haynes (think Eric Norwood, and Everette Brown) a lot of confidence wasn't inspired on the DL as far as pass rush goes. 

So again we were left with ''old'' edge rushers, and were once again counting on Short to collapse the pocket at the age of 29...Addison was coming into the season at 30, and Peppers was an off-season surgery participant at age 38. I think we all knew we had ABSOLUTELY no depth on the DL, and you can't convince me the coaches believed -- Horton, Obada, and Haynes were the answers. Age just caught up to this team, and it happened overnight right around the 1/4 point in the season even before the loss streak IMO. 

Being one of the top teams at ''generating'' pressure doesn't lead to sacks, if you can't get home, and consistently affect the throws it doesn't matter, now some of this is scheme, I don't think all the soft coverage outside gives that older defensive line and it's inexperienced depth a real chance to do anything consistently. And since we don't bench veterans (I'm looking at Adams) we can't play Reid as the box safety, and Gaulden is never gonna see the field as a free safety. 

We just got too old, too fast at too many prominent positions, you have to have a S that can cover the slot / TE (Gaulen played nickel / Reid has TE cover ability) so I think the amount of time Adams gets handicaps us from a ''what we can call'' stand point on defense, I mean seriously, the man is 39 years old at safety in the NFL, in what world does this happen, I don't care how ''savvy'' you are, slow is slow. TD is also approaching that more and more each year, there are plays we saw him make just two, three, four seasons ago (think the leaping INT vs GB) and essentially he's been a non-factor as well as he's assumed his starting role again. 

So when you look at the issues, and consider age trends in the NFL we handicapped ourselves, guys that are 30+ are going to consistently trend down, even with the ''outlier'' seasons where they play outside of their age, it always catches up. 

We're not good enough on either side of the ball to beat NO twice, I think we ''can'' beat CLE, and ATL, but I see us finishing 1-3 down the stretch. We're not gonna sniff Ryan or Brees, both have good offensive lines, quality receivers on the outside, and both have HB tandems that feature two starting caliber runners. I'm honestly not 100% sure we can beat CLE if we fell to TB, and DET. 

So I look back at everything and I just have to ask....was this always going to happen...

Not blaming this all on Hurney because some responsibility belongs to Gettlemen, but MH neglects some positions--he always has.  He used to neglect or draft poorly at DT, CB, QB, etc.  

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Not blaming this all on Hurney because some responsibility belongs to Gettlemen, but MH neglects some positions--he always has.  He used to neglect or draft poorly at DT, CB, QB, etc.  

Well, there was that one QB...

[Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D.]

I think we expected a lot more production from Poe than we have seen.

[SetfreexX]

I can't blame Hurney simply because Gettleman set the board for ''some'' of these issues, not all. He wanted to move on from Olsen and TD, and part of that led to his firing. So I think he could see the aging stars play slipping, but JR did his damnedest to keep the band together for one last push. 

However, the Butler, Worley, Sanchez picks IMO are three of, if not THE MOST wasted picks in the Gettleman era along with Daeshon Hall. Butler was a 1st, Worley was a 3rd, Sanchez was a 5th, and if memory serves we traded up for Hall. None of them are with the team, save Butler and it's because he's on a 1st round contract and was just a healthy scratch. 

[Car123]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Well, there was that one QB...

We desperately needed a qb in 2010. Just that the 2010 qb draft class was historically bad. 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010QB.php

[SetfreexX]

Just now, Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D. said:

I think we expected a lot more production from Poe than we have seen.

I'm in the other camp, Star didn't have a ton of tangible production. I think Poe has done his job, the runs that we surrender are on cut backs, and missed tackles, the interior runs have been minimized for the most part all season. 

The only players I see making plays at or behind the LOS are Luke, and Reid when he's in the box. Name the last time you saw TD in the backfield. I can't blame Shaq because he is relegated to spelling TD. 

[Car123]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Not blaming this all on Hurney because some responsibility belongs to Gettlemen, but MH neglects some positions--he always has.  He used to neglect or draft poorly at DT, CB, QB, etc.  

 

I think you should remove CB from the list. He's brought us solid to great CBs for the most part. Gamble, Lucas, Norman, Jackson, Manning Jr., Marshall.

[SetfreexX]

I mean most of the best players on the team the last several years were from the Hurney era, can we somehow combine Getts / Hurn to form the ultimate GM???

[beastson]

Wasup with all of this reflection now? I had no predictions coming into this season because of the defense. I already knew they were going to suck. My question was could Norv get the offense to be better. Perfect ingredients for a .500 team.

I'm not even blaming Gettleman or Hurney even more. Ron defense is outdated. Our scouting has been poor. Ron should be putting more emphasis on his secondary, tell them we need better safeties and cover corners. No, he want to put everything on the front 4 getting to the QB. So we they don't get to the QB, they're nothing. Even our blitzes suck. I'm tired of giving up 3rd and 15's, 3rd and 17s. GTFOH man, it's embarrassing

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Car123 said:

We desperately needed a qb in 2010. Just that the 2010 qb draft class was historically bad. 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010QB.php

That doesn't excuse trying to trade up for Jimmy Clausen (and having to be talked out of trading the first round pick that got us Newton).

[gmonjimbo]

Gettleman and Hurney both deserve blame for the decline of the defense. However, I rather have Gettleman's approach of getting rid of players a year earlier than a year late. We can't on bank on 35 year old players turning back the clock and playing like they are 25. The problem with Gettleman is that we didnt draft or sign quality players to replace aging veterans. The next GM has to embrace the mantra "speed kills" this defense is slow when you allow Jameis Winston to run for 1st downs. Gettleman only loved DBs that ran 4.6 40s. Finally, I dont trust Hurney saying goodbye to guys like Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen. 

[Car123]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That doesn't excuse trying to trade up for Jimmy Clausen (and having to be talked out of trading the first round pick that got us Newton).

But we didn't trade up. All gms are talked out of moves.

[Car123]

1 minute ago, gmonjimbo said:

Gettleman and Hurney both deserve blame for the decline of the defense. However, I rather have Gettleman's approach of getting rid of players a year earlier than a year late. We can't on bank on 35 year old players turning back the clock and playing like they are 25. The problem with Gettleman is that we didnt draft or sign quality players to replace aging veterans. The next GM has to embrace the mantra "speed kills" this defense is slow when you allow Jameis Winston to run for 1st downs. Gettleman only loved DBs that ran 4.6 40s. Finally, I dont trust Hurney saying goodbye to guys like Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen. 

I don't mind getting rid of a player if we have a replacement that is of the same quality. Gettleman's approach meant we had to nail the draft. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.