Some coaches take responsibility, others just riverboat

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Second piece of advice for message boards: don’t take things so personally...argue points, not people. All your interactions with me show a level of bitterness that is not conducive to good discussion. I guess I have something in common with Rivera in that we both have provoked some ire out of you that has you blindly engaging in lots of ad hominems (also, not a great strategy for discussion). It ain’t that serious, bro. You’re in the same boat as those people who follow other people around from thread to thread just to poop each one of their posts.

Bitterness? Nah. You're not that important to me. You seem to want to be. Not sure why.

I'll give you at least the possibility that maybe you're just trying to talk dumb instead of actually being dumb. Doesn't really change my level of interest in having a conversation with you.

 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, rayzor said:

He has a group of guys that he prefers because they have some "it" quality, usually the cagey vets. He will give them more play time than others who have more to offer than just experience or at least he makes sure they have more PT. This shows a lack of talent evaluation and critical decision making.

When we lose, he never accepts blame and always passes it on to the players. It's always someone else's fault when it's on him to make sure the right players are on the field, those players are well prepared, and that they have the right plan for whatever situation they find themselves in.

The message is clear. "I did everything right but these guys screwed it up." And that is a pretty shitty message for any leader to be consistently giving for 8 years.

It's not really a difficult distinction for anybody to understand.

That's why I suspect he's probably just playing a doofus to be an ass.

[MasterAwesome]

30 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Bitterness? Nah. You're not that important to me. You seem to want to be. Not sure why.

I'll give you at least the possibility that maybe you're just trying to talk dumb instead of actually being dumb. Doesn't really change my level of interest in having a conversation with you.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not really a difficult distinction for anybody to understand.

That's why I suspect he's probably just playing a doofus to be an ass.

Not bitter at all.....lol. I’m the one trying to discuss football and you’re devolving into personal attacks, and then trying to say I’m nothing to you. To quote an earlier poster (to try to keep this on topic), “actions speak louder than words”, my friend. If I’m not mistaken, the last time you got riled up like this, you spent about 79 consecutive posts telling me how unimportant I am to you. I’m not sure which one of us you’re trying to convince.  I’ll buckle up cause it looks like I’m in for another wild ride this time!

Also, I’ve never heard someone use the phrase “talk dumb” unironically, but I guess there’s a first for everything.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

 

Not bitter at all.....lol. I’m the one trying to discuss football and you’re devolving into personal attacks, and then trying to say I’m nothing to you. To quote an earlier poster (to try to keep this on topic), “actions speak louder than words”, my friend. If I’m not mistaken, the last time you got riled up like this, you spent about 79 consecutive posts telling me how unimportant I am to you. I’m not sure which one of us you’re trying to convince.  I’ll buckle up cause it looks like I’m in for another wild ride this time!

Also, I’ve never heard someone use the phrase “talk dumb” unironically, but I guess there’s a first for everything.

Nah.

[MasterAwesome]

44 minutes ago, rayzor said:

He has a group of guys that he prefers because they have some "it" quality, usually the cagey vets. He will give them more play time than others who have more to offer than just experience or at least he makes sure they have more PT. This shows a lack of talent evaluation and critical decision making.

When we lose, he never accepts blame and always passes it on to the players. It's always someone else's fault when it's on him to make sure the right players are on the field, those players are well prepared, and that they have the right plan for whatever situation they find themselves in.

The message is clear. "I did everything right but these guys screwed it up." And that is a pretty shitty message for any leader to be consistently giving for 8 years.

So that begs the question...if this is so clear and blatantly obvious that he’s throwing all the players under the bus, then why is he, by all accounts, beloved by his players? What you just described sounds like a despicable man unworthy of any respect among his subordinates, peers, and superiors. Because he’s “a nice guy”? I hope that’s not the reasoning....hey, this guy is putting us on blast and jeopardizing our standing in this league that we worked so hard to get to, but gosh darn he’s such a nice guy that I’ll overlook that.

The way I see it, it’s one of two things:

1) This “accountability” and “throwing players under the bus” is highly exaggerated...overblown...ill-conceived...etc. and is more of a fabrication on the part of the fans.

2) The players really do NOT like Rivera and are just outwardly pretending or being obedient because he is their coach.

You can’t accept Point #2 without acknowledging a mismatch between public perception, and what is the truth behind closed doors. If you acknowledge that mismatch, then you have to also acknowledge and accept that what is being perceived through the pressers may not be the case behind closed doors, in the locker room, etc.

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

So that begs the question...if this is so clear and blatantly obvious that he’s throwing all the players under the bus, then why is he, by all accounts, beloved by his players? What you just described sounds like a despicable man unworthy of any respect among his subordinates, peers, and superiors. Because he’s “a nice guy”? I hope that’s not the reasoning....hey, this guy is putting us on blast and jeopardizing our standing in this league that we worked so hard to get to, but gosh darn he’s such a nice guy that I’ll overlook that.

The way I see it, it’s one of two things:

1) This “accountability” and “throwing players under the bus” is highly exaggerated...overblown...ill-conceived...etc. and is more of a fabrication on the part of the fans.

2) The players really do NOT like Rivera and are just outwardly pretending or being obedient because he is their coach.

You can’t accept Point #2 without acknowledging a mismatch between public perception, and what is the truth behind closed doors. If you acknowledge that mismatch, then you have to also acknowledge and accept that what is being perceived through the pressers may not be the case behind closed doors, in the locker room, etc.

It's not that difficult to understand if you've ever played.

You're hardly ever going to hear players, especially high character players, blame their coaches. Players will always put the responsibility on themselves because that's what people of character do.

But of course, not Ron Rivera.

[Navy_football]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Correct, which I find really strange because Rivera comes from a military family. Passing the buck is the last thing I would have expected from somebody with that background.

Steve Wilks was very different when he was here. One of the first things out of his mouth was always to take the blame for any defensive failures on himself.

 

Exactly... that's why I used the military connotation. I don't understand it, but I don't understand a lot of things he does. But, he's taken the team to a Super Bowl so what do I know.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Exactly... that's why I used the military connotation. I don't understand it, but I don't understand a lot of things he does. But, he's taken the team to a Super Bowl so what do I know.

You know more than you think.

Rivera's Super Bowl, and pretty much all of his successful seasons, came when Dave Gettleman was managing the roster.

When he's paired with Marty Hurney though, yikes.

 

[MasterAwesome]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not that difficult to understand if you've ever played.

You're hardly ever going to hear players, especially high character players, blame their coaches. Players will always put the responsibility on themselves because that's what people of character do.

But of course, not Ron Rivera.

Oh, are you back so soon?

Notice how I didn’t ask “why do they not blatantly badmouth Rivera” and instead, asked why is he so beloved and constantly referred to as a “Player’s Coach” by all accounts? You can easily tell if a player is disgruntled if you have any wits about you...they wouldn’t go out of their way to praise their coach if he’s on the hot seat, which Rivera has had his butt glued to on multiple occasions.

But thank you for that novel perspective. I’m so glad you could share your unique insight as a former player that players usually don’t blame their coaches for things lol. I’m sure you could also share your unique insight from being employed, that employees usually don’t publicly blame their bosses when something goes wrong! *Mind blown*

[Doc Holiday]

15 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

McVay after losing the SB:

"I'm almost numb … They did great job but it was mostly result of me doing a poor job calling plays and not giving us a chance to win."

Rivera after losing any game:

"Missed opportunities... players have to make plays..."

Over blown and doesn’t matter, Rivera is and has been responsible for himself and his team. 

This is fans whining that he hasn’t apologized to them. He doesn’t have to answer to them for anything, Tepper is the only person that he must and answer to.

youre never gonna make everyone happy so why should he bother trying to appease the 10% that will hate you regardless. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Oh, are you back so soon?

Notice how I didn’t ask “why do they not blatantly badmouth Rivera” and instead, asked why is he so beloved and constantly referred to as a “Player’s Coach” by all accounts? You can easily tell if a player is disgruntled if you have any wits about you...they wouldn’t go out of their way to praise their coach if he’s on the hot seat, which Rivera has had his butt glued to on multiple occasions.

But thank you for that novel perspective. I’m so glad you could share your unique insight as a former player that players usually don’t blame their coaches for things lol. I’m sure you could also share your unique insight from being employed, that employees usually don’t publicly blame their bosses when something goes wrong! *Mind blown*

Nah. Just illustrating that you don't know what you're talking about.

Granted, you illustrate that much better than I do.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Doc Holiday said:

Over blown and doesn’t matter, Rivera is and has been responsible for himself and his team. 

This is fans whining that he hasn’t apologized to them. He doesn’t have to answer to them for anything, Tepper is the only person that he must and answer to.

youre never gonna make everyone happy so why should he bother trying to appease the 10% that will hate you regardless. 

Nobody's asking for Rivera to apologize to fans.

People would like to see him actually take responsibility for his own failures, something that true leaders typically do as opposed to constantly blaming somebody else.

 

[musicman]

McVay calles the plays and took responsibility. Ron doesn't until the end of last year.  Is it his fault Gano missed a FG &extra point & Funch dropped all those passes? Is it his fault Cam couldn't throw the ball more then 20 yards? Is it his fault DJ fumbled 2x in Washington? Come on!!! He didn't say a player played bad, he usually said a few plays here and there make all the difference. We've been very competitive in most games (except Pitt). I think there is room for criticism but I think the blame is too harsh for the reality of what is his fault.  

[raz]

i think its pretty much rivera's fault cam couldn't throw 20 yards down the field.  he left him in meaningless games in 'previous years because he wasn't a strong enough leader to make him sit.  and he and the 2 gm's haven't been able to give cam a decent line in 8 years.  oh, its also rivera's fault gano missed the fg's.   gano shouldnt have even been on the team.  we had a guy to replace him for cheap, and we let him go.