Something is not right in Carolina and it goes beyond Cam Newton

[tiger7_88]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, Jourdan is really good. Heck, Person is better since he moved to The Athletic.

The coverage is worth the subscription.

Yeah, I got 50% off (or was it 60?) subscribe for a year.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, tiger7_88 said:

Yeah, I got 50% off (or was it 60?) subscribe for a year.

Me too.

Rodrigue is a Rivera fan I know, but I also think she's been honest in a lot of her evaluations.

[beastson]

Analytics. That is what the NBA and NFL is transitioning to right. I recall reading Tepper recognizing that. I believe his mind said fire Rivera, but his heart said that's wrong Cam was hurt. Follow your brain, not your heart. Rivera will never be an analytics guy. It's frustrating this franchise tied him to Cam and its quite idiotic truthfully speaking

I would have loved to see a fresh offensive mind come in and say cam what do you want? What's the biggest change you think should happen. He implement his system around Cam, but not just around the QB but the routes receivers run, the way the oline block, the pace.. just a complete 180 from what we see now. Norv is much older much more old school. Someone who can talk to Cam on that level. Unfortunately that might just happen with a new QB

[Glitchh]

5 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

I'm guessing here, but maybe it's that the team maintained status quo?  Maybe we all realize this was a bad idea?  Maybe we knew Ron was a bad coach, Hurney is abad GM, Norv is old and this whole traveling circus is about to implode?

Yeah...something is wrong all right.

Sure, it was a bad idea but maybe Tepper is just stalling to see what kind of QB he had. If you need to start over at QB, coaching, GM, why not do it all at the same time?And the team will also have lots of free agents at end of season. To me I see a mass rebuild coming.

[The Lobo]

I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed a DC get relieved of play calling duties by the HC in a season and come back to the same position the next year. All the while, the HC that relieves him, doesn’t call plays the following year. So, the man who was terrible at his job is back to being terrible at his job and the HC couldn’t fire him, he couldn’t even call plays again. It’s time for RR to go. 

[Mr. Scot]

24 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed a DC get relieved of play calling duties by the HC in a season and come back to the same position the next year. All the while, the HC that relieves him, doesn’t call plays the following year. So, the man who was terrible at his job is back to being terrible at his job and the HC couldn’t fire him, he couldn’t even call plays again. It’s time for RR to go. 

Darin Gantt said when it happened that he expected Rivera to basically try and eventually restore Washington to calling the defense. He sees Washington as a protege, so rather than abandon him he's going to try to "rebuild" him.

That's Rivera.

 

[tiger7_88]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Darin Gantt said when it happened that he expected Rivera to basically try and eventually restore Washington to calling the defense. He sees Washington as a protege, so rather than abandon him he's going to try to "rebuild" him.

That's Rivera.

 

I think its been crystal clear over the years that Ron Rivera not only doesn't like to take responsibility for the team for which he is the head coach, he is also averse to being given responsibilities. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, tiger7_88 said:

I think its been crystal clear over the years that Ron Rivera not only doesn't like to take responsibility for the team for which he is the head coach, he is also averse to being given responsibilities. 

My thing with this particular move is that we already knew Rivera was only so-so as a game manager.

Given those conditions, taking on extra duties is something less than ideal.

And no, I don't think asking an assistant defensive line coach who's never actually managed a game to help is all that great an idea either.

[The Lobo]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Darin Gantt said when it happened that he expected Rivera to basically try and eventually restore Washington to calling the defense. He sees Washington as a protege, so rather than abandon him he's going to try to "rebuild" him.

That's Rivera.

 

I should have went on to say, if not fire him, put him back as a Dline coach and let him learn on the side. Last year he showed he wasn’t ready. Probably still isn’t ready 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, The Lobo said:

I should have went on to say, if not fire him, put him back as a Dline coach and let him learn on the side. Last year he showed he wasn’t ready. Probably still isn’t ready 

Technically, that's what they did. Officially, Washington is the defensive coordinator in title only.

You still have to have somebody to make the defensive playcalls, though.

There were guys available in the offseason that Rivera could have brought in, including guys he was familiar with. Of course, if you do that, then you take away the option of giving the job back to Washington down the road.

That actually may be one of the reasons why he chose to do it himself instead.

[raleigh-panther]

Cam is a fabulous athlete 

seeing him out there like that, broke my heart...truly, .totally broke it

i have to believe that a MVP and a Heisman winner will not go down without a fight 

Turner needs to get away from all the misdirection crap, put his fullback in, two back set like a grown up team, and a helmet on a helmet, old fashioned smash mouth football until that line gets it together   

if Cam’s foot is ok, let him run  let Cam be Cam  staying in the pocket is going to get him killed anyway and ...maybe, just maybe, those few little steps, help momentum and turns things around 

Cam has given me a lot of joy for a lot of Sundays. My issues have always been with Rivera 

   I can deal with ‘good Cam’ ‘bad cam’ in a single game

i can’t deal with broken Cam 

 

 

[BrianS]

12 hours ago, enough is enough said:

for shiz and giggles, i checked out norvs stint with the chargers as OC...i only went through the first 4 years of stats, because...well, im lazy enough and this was a good enough sampling for my hunch. phillip rivers only threw more than 40 times in a game 4 times, and never 50 or more. so, how is it with a dynamo ladanian tomlinson clone (i get it, talking football ability) like cmac on the roster, and cam coming in after a second shoulder surgery, we throw for 51 fugging times in a game that wasnt a barn burner, or we werent depleted in the running corps??? this shiz is so annoying that no one is talking about norv sabotaging cam...and there are a number of nefarious reasons, as well as a LOT of smoke with the past 2 games asinine play-calling that played to and exploited cam's weaknesses to say this is more than just a conspiracy. 

norv trying to pull some southern mafia BS, and its working like hell turning the fanbase against cam. norv is SUPPOSED to mask our inefficiencies....either he is the dumbest 40 year coaching vet EVER, or he is big timing cam and playing the fanbase.....HAS to be one of the 2. 

That's easy, because the Bucs *knew* Cam couldn't beat them with his arm, so they absolutely STACKED the box all night with 8+ players and simply dared Cam to be a consistent QB.  He failed.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Norv.  A good OC doesn't call runs into a stacked box.  It's destined to fail.  Who here remembers how we used to deride Shula for doing things like that?

Anyone who thinks Norv isn't doing everything in his power to put our players in positions to succeed isn't paying attention.

Look, it may take a coaching change to turn things around.  No one knows.  The point of this article is that there is a bad vibe in the air and I do agree with that.  The players simply aren't CONVINCED that they can win.  In 2015, it was that sheer CONVICTION that propelled them to the SB.  That seems gone right now.

Is it that the players themselves just don't believe in Cam anymore?  Possibly.  Is it Ron?  Possibly.

I'd actually like to propose that the players just don't believe in Ron any longer.  Not that Ron is a bad coach, but consider the OBVIOUS blunders on game days.  Then consider the less obvious ones . . . particularly Ron's coaching staff.  Ron has been loyal to a fault with his coaches.  Then, when he is finally forced to go outside his comfort zone, the guys he brings in are a hot mess.

This does happen.  Coaches lose the locker room.  It's just a thing that happens.  Even good coaches like Andy Reid end up getting moved on because they've lost the locker room.

 

[BrianS]

2 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

Cam is a fabulous athlete 

seeing him out there like that, broke my heart...truly, .totally broke it

i have to believe that a MVP and a Heisman winner will not go down without a fight 

Turner needs to get away from all the misdirection crap, put his fullback in, two back set like a grown up team, and a helmet on a helmet, old fashioned smash mouth football until that line gets it together   

if Cam’s foot is ok, let him run  let Cam be Cam  staying in the pocket is going to get him killed anyway and ...maybe, just maybe, those few little steps, help momentum and turns things around 

Cam has given me a lot of joy for a lot of Sundays. My issues have always been with Rivera 

   I can deal with ‘good Cam’ ‘bad cam’ in a single game

i can’t deal with broken Cam 

 

 

While all of this sounds wonderful, it's not reality.  Go watch the tape.  We cannot man up against our opponents, we get blown off the ball.  Norv loves a fullback, we all know this.  The reason he isn't using one is because he realizes it's futile.  Norv is adjusting what he calls to the reality of the players on the field.

Our O Line is shaky at best, which means you're going to have to run using misdirection.  You're going to have to throw with a multi-tiered approach that allows for a quick pass when the protection isn't there.

The bottom line remains that Cam has to be able to beat teams with his arm.  I would love to think we will see that.  As a fan of this team everyone should be on board with that hope.  However, the early returns are that Cam just isn't right any longer.  The off season narrative out of the organization is "Cam is healthy, his shoulder is right, no excuses".  Well, if this is right, Cam is done.

He'll get another 8 or so games to show us that these first two games were just rust.  I HOPE HE DOES IT.  But an entire year of this and I would expect that Cam along with Ron will be out the door next January.  End of an era.

[SBiii]

9 hours ago, Snake said:

The first thing Robert Kraft did was take a huge chance on a coach. Our owner stuck with the status quo and it shows. 

Bill Parcells coached the Patriots for Kraft for the first 2 years, then Pete Carroll was hired.