clearing up this kyle allen vs cam newton battle

[Saca312]

since this board has collective amnesia and/or a vitriolic tendency to commit to one side of the "cam newton vs kyle allen" spectrum, let me clear a few things up.

-No. Kyle Allen is not better than a healthy Cam Newton. Stop kidding yourselves. Even with Kyle Allen reaching his best form he won't even touch Cam's peak. Let's just end that ridiculous notion there.

-No. Kyle Allen does not suck. He's a more than capable backup that has starting potential for plenty of other teams. He does a lot of things right that not many QBs can do, and he still is learning/growing as a player. As more experience comes, his ball handling will be better, he'll step up in the pocket more, and he'll go through his progressions more efficiently.

-No. Kyle Allen should not remain the starter when Cam Newton comes back 100% healthy. Cam is (gasps) actually a more accurate thrower in tight windows in more tense situations than Kyle Allen has shown. He handles pressure better. His "overthrows" are the most overblown narrative out there and completely ignorant in the eyes of anyone who's actually watched his film. He also has more experience.

-No. Cam Newton has not sucked ever since 2015. It's like some of you have collective amnesia from the latter 2017 and early 2018 run where Cam was on a hot streak and in the MVP conversation. I dare say his performance in the 2017 playoffs was the best I've ever seen from Cam, especially considering the context of his o-line and practice squad WRs and outplaying a solid Drew Brees' performance. In fact, a healthy Cam Newton is better than his 2015 form, as he's been more accurate than before.

-No. Just because Cam Newton is a better QB than Kyle Allen doesn't mean Allen sucks. 

-Yes, it is possible for both Kyle Allen and Cam Newton to be good QBs. That can be mutually true without the clash of "blah blah blah Kyle Allen suxs" and "blah blah blah Cam Newton suxs." Pretend we have two capable starters on the team, because that's our current situation. It's just the one with more experience, an MVP award, superbowl appearance, multiple playoff wins, multiple NFL records, ROTY award, etc. happens to be the better option. That's a fact. Kyle Allen is still good but to hold him to the standard of Cam is idiotic and to downplay his impact for us is also moronic.

-Yes, it's fair to question Cam's health going forward. nothing is proven until played on the field. 

-Yes, it's idiotic to assume he'll suck going forward still.

-Yes, it's still moronic to assume Cam has sucked after 2015 or never lived up to that form.

-Yes, it's possible to support the Panthers if you like both Kyle Allen and Cam Newton.

-Yes, it is possible to enjoy a win without turning it into a Kyle Allen vs Cam Newton warzone. I mean we're 2-2 trending up now that's all that matters.

Just my few cents on this matter.

[jfra78]

Also it's okay to hope that Kyle Allen can be a good starting QB if we have to move on from Cam.

And it's okay to hope Cam comes back 100% and Kyle goes back to holding a clipboard.

 

 

 

[Saca312]

1 minute ago, jfra78 said:

Also it's okay to hope that Kyle Allen can be a good starting QB if we have to move on from Cam.

And it's okay to hope Cam comes back 100% and Kyle goes back to holding a clipboard.

 

 

 

Yep. 

It's appalling how many panther fans are divided on this issue and how it's such a "this side or bust" kind of deal. Like it's not hard to support them both and not come up with all these false declaratives around them.

[1of10Charnatives]

I support everything about the idea of this thread. False dichotomy based on tribalism instincts is pointless and often ignores reality.  We’re in a pretty enviable situation as a franchise qb wise, And that’s a good thing.

[kungfoodude]

I wonder if the Saints are having to deal with this poo.....

[Hoenheim]

Cam hasn't put together a full season's worth of consistent superior QB play since 2015. Whether that be due to injuries, a decline in performance otherwise, or both, I don't care.

He also hasn't won a playoff game since 2015. 

I'm not all for giving the benefit of the doubt completely to Cam. I'm sure he'll get a chance to come back in and start when he actually gets fully healthy, but he's going to have to DO something with that. Like WIN games and win a playoff game. He's currently on a 8 game losing streak and Kyle Allen is on a 3 game winning streak.

I'm all for cam coming back and kicking ass, but if he comes in and stinks it up again and keeps losing, we have a problem. 

And don't give my that BS with his accuracy. He's skyrocketed passes above people's heads well before he had injury problems and had a career accuracy below 60% passing. Some of that was due to his WR being ass and some of it was due to him throwing balls 10 feet over their heads. 

 

[Saca312]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I wonder if the Saints are having to deal with this poo.....

gotta wonder how many saints fans are pulling for teddy bridgewater to be the full time starter over drew brees, even though it makes perfect sense when you factor in brees' contract + age.

bet a whole lot less than panther fans calling for cam's head. 

[jfra78]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I wonder if the Saints are having to deal with this poo.....

No but they think they will be okay if Brees retires now, which is false.

[Hoenheim]

6 minutes ago, thebigcat said:

You're not factoring that

Cam is gonna cost $30+ million a season

Allen is pennies to that dollar

Cam's best days are behind him

Cam's accuracy is middle of the road, without being able to run he's avg as a QB

and this right here. Cams going to have to PROVE that he can be worth the payday to keep him here. 

How much sense would it make if Cam comes back in at Falcons on 12/8, loses 4 more games in a row to extend his losing streak to 0-12 , and we miss the playoffs b/c of it? 

You want to pay him 30 + mil a year you a damn fool. 

[Saca312]

7 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

And don't give my that BS with his accuracy. He's skyrocketed passes above people's heads well before he had injury problems and had a career accuracy below 60% passing. Some of that was due to his WR being ass and some of it was due to him throwing balls 10 feet over their heads. 

Sigh. I've already disputed this multiple times over how that was largely correlated with his WRs + o-line being terrible + tight windows/poor routes, plus the fact he averages around the same amount of overthrows as a Tom Brady, Big Ben, or Aaron Rodgers would. Basically any normal quarterback.

It's tiring when this narrative keeps getting repeated over and over again. All it does is show how little is paid attention in football.

[Saca312]

4 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

and this right here. Cams going to have to PROVE that he can be worth the payday to keep him here. 

he's already proven he's worth the whole franchise after saving rivera's ass multiple multiple times and keeping it in relevancy to the point he's sacrificed his body and basically his potential future and health.

and he'll never get any credit for it.

sadly, it just shows how broken this franchise is at handling its talent and ruining it. if cam is no longer healthy, next in line for rivera's sacrificial table likely is going to be CMC. i mean, they're already running him to the ground as it is now. 

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, Hoenheim said:

and this right here. Cams going to have to PROVE that he can be worth the payday to keep him here. 

I agree that in the off-season a tough decision will have to be made.  But for this season, if Cam can come back 100% healthy, he gives us the best chance to go to the Superbowl.

[Hoenheim]

1 minute ago, Saca312 said:

he's already proven he's worth the whole franchise after saving rivera's ass multiple multiple times and keeping it in relevancy to the point he's sacrificed his body and basically his potential future and health.

and he'll never get any credit for it.

so If Allen goes 11-0 and Cam goes 0-12 you would pay Cam 30+ Mil and keep him as the starter ?? 

[Hoenheim]

1 minute ago, jfra78 said:

I agree that in the off-season a tough decision will have to be made.  But for this season, if Cam can come back 100% healthy, he gives us the best chance to go to the Superbowl.

thats yet to be proven. What does 100% cam even look like or can he even get to that point??