Tepper's Vision For a New Stadium

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, Snake said:

If you build it they will come. Open your pockets taxes are super cheap in NC. 

How much I pay in taxes isn’t the issue. What those taxes are used for is. I love the Panthers but why any entertainment business profitable to the tune of billions of dollars deserves tax subsidies when our schools are in shambles, our roads and infrastructure need a ton of work, and a million more logical uses of public funds go wanting, I have yet to have explained to me with solid verifiable math involved.

[45catfan]

7 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

How much I pay in taxes isn’t the issue. What those taxes are used for is. I love the Panthers but why any entertainment business profitable to the tune of billions of dollars deserves tax subsidies when our schools are in shambles, our roads and infrastructure need a ton of work, and a million more logical uses of public funds go wanting, I have yet to have explained to me with solid verifiable math involved.

The very reason people are fleeing to the suburbs.  Ever increasing taxes and little to show for it except the expansion of the city itself.   I'm a Charlotte native and left years ago as did all my immediate family as well as most of my childhood friends I still keep in contact with.  They are scattered all over Union, Cabarrus, and Iredell counties.  All except one friend who is still in the city and he's looking to move ASAP.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

The very reason people are fleeing to the suburbs.  Ever increasing taxes and little to show for it except the expansion of the city itself.   I'm a Charlotte native and left years ago as did all my immediate family as well as most of my childhood friends I still keep in contact with.  They are scattered all over Union, Cabarrus, and Iredell counties.  All except one friend who is still in the city and he's looking to move ASAP.

Gaston county being conspicuously absent from your list. I can tell you really are one of the other ten natives.

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Gaston county being conspicuously absent from your list. I can tell you really are one of the other ten natives.

Yeah, my dad's side of the family was from the Concord/Kannapolis area.  I remember as a kid how run down those little backwoods mill towns were when we would visit family.  Now look at it, especially Concord.  And no, Nascar didn't create all that, many of those folks are from the city fleeing Char/Meck taxes and problems.

[PanthersBigD]

11 hours ago, Paa Langfart said:

Fortunately the folks in Charlotte will only be spending 110 million dollars on Teppers wishes for a rework of BOA so he can host soccer matches.

Those are hospitality funds, from the hotel/hospitality tax, THAT. VISITORS. PAY. Literally folks NOT from Charlotte who come to the area for events. Jesus, it's not that hard. 

[PanthersBigD]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

The very reason people are fleeing to the suburbs.  Ever increasing taxes and little to show for it except the expansion of the city itself.   I'm a Charlotte native and left years ago as did all my immediate family as well as most of my childhood friends I still keep in contact with.  They are scattered all over Union, Cabarrus, and Iredell counties.  All except one friend who is still in the city and he's looking to move ASAP.

That's not why people are moving to the suburbs. Housing prices in Charlotte are too high for what they want to pay, because literally everyone is trying to buy in Charlotte, pushing home values through the roof. City governments out in bumfug nowhere aren't any more responsible with their tax spending than Charlotte, their taxes are just cheaper because it's what their markets will bear.  

[thefuzz]

Get your football team fixed, then hold your hand out again....

I'm tired of these politicians with no backbone.

[45catfan]

19 minutes ago, PanthersBigD said:

That's not why people are moving to the suburbs. Housing prices in Charlotte are too high for what they want to pay, because literally everyone is trying to buy in Charlotte, pushing home values through the roof. City governments out in bumfug nowhere aren't any more responsible with their tax spending than Charlotte, their taxes are just cheaper because it's what their markets will bear.  

For northern transplants, Charlotte housing is considerably affordable.  If you meant what 'locals' are left, yes, housing prices are higher compared to what they are used to, but the taxes and crime are higher too.  Char/Meck schools aren't the most desirable either.  Yet another reason "local" folks move to the burbs.

So you don't begrudge them for moving to where taxes are lower, regardless of the reason?

[mc52beast]

4 hours ago, 4Corners said:

welfare and socialism are bad UNLESS tax money is being used to finance my new sports stadium. 
 

signed,

billionaire Republicans 

I’m confused... what the hell does welfare and socialism have to do with building a stadium

[PanthersBigD]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

For northern transplants, Charlotte housing is considerably affordable.  If you meant what 'locals' are left, yes, housing prices are higher compared to what they are used to, but the taxes and crime are higher too.  Char/Meck schools aren't the most desirable either.  Yet another reason "local" folks move to the burbs.

So you don't begrudge them for moving to where taxes are lower, regardless of the reason?

I do not. However I think someone saying they're moving to the suburbs for lower taxes is disingenuous. 

Sure you can put a larger down payment on your mortgage with the proceeds from the sale of your home up north, but typically, you're not earning your NYC salary working out of the Fort Mill or Charlotte office, so purchase price is only one consideration in determining where to live. People move to the burbs because they want a big house they can't afford in the city, and they want homogenous communities. Charlotte schools were actually pretty good until some asshole from out of state sued to get rid of busing back in 2001: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-desegregation-and-resegregation-of-charlottes-schools?verso=true. I attended CMS schools my entire school career, during busing, and it was great. Back then East Charlotte was the suburbs, and driving to Weddington or Mooresville was like driving to another state. 

[Snake]

2 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

How much I pay in taxes isn’t the issue. What those taxes are used for is. I love the Panthers but why any entertainment business profitable to the tune of billions of dollars deserves tax subsidies when our schools are in shambles, our roads and infrastructure need a ton of work, and a million more logical uses of public funds go wanting, I have yet to have explained to me with solid verifiable math involved.

That's why you raise taxes to fund those projects. What's the point if you don't? A 10% increase would do that with a stadium tax as well. 15% increase seems small after that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. No point in allowing rich people to line their pocket and send their kids to Charlotte Christian. 

[1of10Charnatives]

14 minutes ago, Snake said:

That's why you raise taxes to fund those projects. What's the point if you don't? A 10% increase would do that with a stadium tax as well. 15% increase seems small after that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. No point in allowing rich people to line their pocket and send their kids to Charlotte Christian. 

Two things:

Basic economics teaches us that raising taxes does not always raise tax revenue, and comes with negative consequences in other areas. As taxes go up locally, businesses and individuals move away from higher tax districts to lower ones, something actively discussed in this very thread about flight away from Mecklenburg's higher taxes.

Secondly, you seem to have missed my underlying point, that my objection to use of public funds to build stadiums for private businesses that are highly profitable is more philosophical and less budgetary priority. Sure, when we achieve a situation where all conceivable appropriate use of public funds are fully funded and citizens are happy with their tax rates and there is money left over, then I would not be philosophically opposed to considering government funding stadiums as public perks. Let me know when that happens.

But as it stands now, anyone who lives here that is not an NFL fan or does not attend Panther games is getting hosed on their taxes, because they are being diverted for the benefit of a private enterprise at no measurable benefit to the general public. This would be bad even if other needs did not go wanting, but is particularly galling when they do.

Also you seem to think that raising taxes amounts to taxing the rich. Local taxes are generated primarily from property, and while the value of property owned by the rich is greater than most people's, since the rich represent a small percentage of the overall population, raising property taxes would affect anyone who owns property mostly equally, the increase would not come primarily from the rich. However your post isn't clear on exactly what you are expecting to tax, so please provide more specifics if by raising taxes you mean something other than property taxes.

[1of10Charnatives]

51 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

I’m confused... what the hell does welfare and socialism have to do with building a stadium

 Building a stadium with public funds that is primarily going to be used by a highly profitable private business like an NFL franchise is corporate welfare and the definition of socialism. 

[Snake]

9 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Two things:

Basic economics teaches us that raising taxes does not always raise tax revenue, and comes with negative consequences in other areas. As taxes go up locally, businesses and individuals move away from higher tax districts to lower ones, something actively discussed in this very thread about flight away from Mecklenburg's higher taxes.

Secondly, you seem to have missed my underlying point, that my objection to use of public funds to build stadiums for private businesses that are highly profitable is more philosophical and less budgetary priority. Sure, when we achieve a situation where all conceivable appropriate use of public funds are fully funded and citizens are happy with their tax rates and there is money left over, then I would not be philosophically opposed to considering government funding stadiums as public perks. Let me know when that happens.

But as it stands now, anyone who lives here that is not an NFL fan or does not attend Panther games is getting hosed on their taxes, because they are being diverted for the benefit of a private enterprise at no measurable benefit to the general public. This would be bad even if other needs did not go wanting, but is particularly galling when they do.

Businesses are not going to move. Like where SC where Taxes are higher than 15%? I mean I get it but having a state of the art stadium will bring in a bunch of commerce and will make Charlotte even more of a destination. Yes your typical redneck family won't be able to pay 500 in taxes but that's not what your trying to attract anyway. The reason nothern states have such a better educational system and public works is because they have the resources to do it. I get taxes are a boogie word but honestly unless you live in NJ or California your money is spent well. Also if you don't like how the money is spent I suggest voting in people who will spend it right.