Rhule on Cam

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

The highlighted statement does not say to me Tepper is against paying any qb 36 mil. As a businessman he will know that you have to pay the market rate for any scarce premium commodity and that is definitely franchise qb’s . What the highlighted statement says to me is he’s against paying 36 mil for a qb who’s not worth it because a premature or emotional decision was made by a GM or owner not being completely rational.

*pauses to look at JR and Hurney and all those Hurney 1.0 extensions*

I don’t think the statement is crystal clear at all. I think anyone could easily put one of several slants on it. The one that makes the most sense to me given situational context is this is Tepper’s way of saying “we’ll pay Cam the market rate, but only if he comes back next year and demonstrates he’s worth it,”

As always YMMV

I dont know man.  He is speaking in context of how attractive the job is to a good coach and he is saying the slate is blank because there are no existing mega deals on the books.  So its looking like a rebuild from ground up.  Seems pretty clear to me. 

[1of10Charnatives]

18 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont know man.  He is speaking in context of how attractive the job is to a good coach and he is saying the slate is blank because there are no existing mega deals on the books.  So its looking like a rebuild from ground up.  Seems pretty clear to me. 

Sure no mega deals on the books. I wouldn’t want to be stuck with a 30 year old qb with Cam’s injury history and no options as a new HC either. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love the chance to try out that same veteran qb for a year on the last year of his reasonably priced deal to see what you’ve got in him.

I am hoping Cam can return to form but pessimistic about the odds of his being able to do so given all the factors. I think the risk you take in bringing him back is that he looks good early, is able to get you a handful of wins out of the gate like Allen did this year, then his body fails him. In that scenario, we will have answered the question on Cam, but risked putting ourselves out of the running for Lawrence. But that’s a highly specific scenario with many variables. Just about anything else and it’s worth it to find out what you have. 

The odds might be long on Cam being back to 100% and able to stay there, but given the odds of acquiring a franchise qb otherwise, they still seem worth it to me. In the meantime you set to work fixing the team your qb will have to work with around him, which you know is a multi year endeavor anyway, whether that qb is ultimately Cam or someone else.

Either way, what I think Tepper is really saying is “we’re not gonna make rash missteps that create huge albatross contracts that hamstring the franchise for years.”  But yeah, we’re all just trying to read tea leaves. I’m cool with whatever as long as whatever doesn’t turn into a stupid mistake.

[Mr. Scot]

8 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

The ones you been ignoring and will continue 2 because this isnt what you want. This quote is one of them.

"Plan to" is a very flexible phrase. As someone pointed out, Matt Rhule "planned to" stay at Baylor, until he didn't. Likewise, the Jaguars "planned to" keep Jalen Ramsey, right up to the point where they traded him.

Bottom line: This quote doesn't really change anything.

Now with that said, is it possible Newton comes back? Sure it is. Always has been.

As has been mentioned in the past, the biggest obstacle is that Newton and his camp want an extension/guarantees and the Panthers want him to play out his final year as a "prove it" year. If one side or the other relents on their stance, then yes it could happen.

Will it? Don't know. Hard to imagine the Panthers offering an extension to a guy who hasn't been healthy for three years. Is Newton willing to gamble and take a risk on himself? Also unknown.

Make no mistake though, it would be a huge risk because if he gets injured again, nobody's gonna come knocking next season.

[Huffgolf30]

 

 

 Rhule to Cam...  ( I am Mick')

 

 

 

 

[1of10Charnatives]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

"Plan to" is a very flexible phrase. As someone pointed out, Matt Rhule "planned to" stay at Baylor, until he didn't. Likewise, the Jaguars "planned to" keep Jalen Ramsey, right up to the point where they traded him.

Bottom line: This quote doesn't really change anything.

Now with that said, is it possible Newton comes back? Sure it is. Always has been.

As has been mentioned in the past, the biggest obstacle is that Newton and his camp want an extension/guarantees and the Panthers want him to play out his final year as a "prove it" year. If one side or the other relents on their stance, then yes it could happen.

Will it? Don't know. Hard to imagine the Panthers offering an extension to a guy who hasn't been healthy for three years. Is Newton willing to gamble and take a risk on himself? Also unknown.

Make no mistake though, it would be a huge risk because if he gets injured again, nobody's gonna come knocking next season.

Here's the thing about this situation. I don't think the Panthers stance is any different than any other team in the league. I don't think any team would give a qb with Cam's injury history a 30 plus mill per year extension without knowing what they have. Thus I think if Cam's position truly is that he wants to be extended before playing again, he's probably SOL not just with us, but with anybody. That leaves him two choices that I can see, come back and see if he can prove his health and effectiveness next year, which will earn him a new contract whether it be with us or elsewhere, or retire. 

I don't think Cam needs the money, but I don't see him walking away from the game at this point. He could but I'd be surprised if he did.  I see him playing out the last year of his contract as the only path to continuing his career, whether that be with us or elsewhere.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Here's the thing about this situation. I don't think the Panthers stance is any different than any other team in the league. I don't think any team would give a qb with Cam's injury history a 30 plus mill per year extension without knowing what they have. Thus I think if Cam's position truly is that he wants to be extended before playing again, he's probably SOL not just with us, but with anybody. That leaves him two choices that I can see, come back and see if he can prove his health and effectiveness next year, which will earn him a new contract whether it be with us or elsewhere, or retire. 

I don't think Cam needs the money, but I don't see him walking away from the game at this point. He could but I'd be surprised if he did.  I see him playing out the last year of his contract as the only path to continuing his career, whether that be with us or elsewhere.

I could see them straight cutting him because he doesnt fit into their long term plans.  Would I be upset, sure, would I understand, absolutely.  I dont see how it helps anyone trotting Cam out there to maybe go .500. 

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I could see them straight cutting him because he doesnt fit into their long term plans.  Would I be upset, sure, would I understand, absolutely.  I dont see how it helps anyone trotting Cam out there to maybe go .500. 

Possible but carries a huge PR risk. If you straight cut him, he can sign with anyone he wants, even a division opponent. No matter what anyone says, Cam's actual performance ability going forward is an unknown. The last thing any owner, GM or coach would ever want to see is the face of their franchise in another jersey in their stadium humiliating their team while their own fans boo the poo out of them for letting the guy go. That's just a nightmare scenario and if I had to guess, I'm guessing that risk alone probably keeps them from cutting him. The cap savings aren't worth the risk if you've already decided you're in for a long term rebuild anyway.

I think it's not about going .500 if you trot Cam out there, it's about finding out he's still got something in the tank or not so you can either resign him and give him a long term deal, trade him for real value if you really don't want him (super doubtful they'd do this, just too hard to find qb's of that caliber), or determining he's done and you can let him walk away.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Possible but carries a huge PR risk. If you straight cut him, he can sign with anyone he wants, even a division opponent. No matter what anyone says, Cam's actual performance ability going forward is an unknown. The last thing any owner, GM or coach would ever want to see is the face of their franchise in another jersey in their stadium humiliating their team while their own fans boo the poo out of them for letting the guy go. That's just a nightmare scenario and if I had to guess, I'm guessing that risk alone probably keeps them from cutting him. The cap savings aren't worth the risk if you've already decided you're in for a long term rebuild anyway.

I think it's not about going .500 if you trot Cam out there, it's about finding out he's still got something in the tank or not so you can either resign him and give him a long term deal, trade him for real value if you really don't want him (super doubtful they'd do this, just too hard to find qb's of that caliber), or determining he's done and you can let him walk away.

Here is the thing that makes it dicey.  What if Brady/rhule hone in on a qb this draft to get the party started?  When and how can Cam show he is good to go?  As I said all along, the timing on a lot of things (contract, surgery, draft) make this a total clustereff in regards of what exactly to do with Cam.  I think in the end all parties agree to cut ties and cam goes to Chicago.  My two cents. 

 

On an opinion level I think he is done.  He isnt going to run like he did and I have major concerns about the shoulder.   The NFL let him take too many unnecessary shots in the past few years.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Here is the thing that makes it dicey.  What if Brady/rhule hone in on a qb this draft to get the party started?  When and how can Cam show he is good to go?  As I said all along, the timing on a lot of things (contract, surgery, draft) make this a total clustereff in regards of what exactly to do with Cam.  I think in the end all parties agree to cut ties and cam goes to Chicago.  My two cents. 

 

On an opinion level I think he is done.  He isnt going to run like he did and I have major concerns about the shoulder.   The NFL let him take too many unnecessary shots in the past few years.

Hoping your wrong about that last part, afraid you're right. With regards to the first part, I mean I personally am not excited about any of the qb's not named Burrow in this draft, granted since I don't follow college ball all that closely, what do I know? But that has no real bearing on whether the decision makers do. I'm inclined to say Rhule shouldn't necessarily be telling Hurney he's got to have a qb right this second, but for all I know, he might, or he might be really high on someone who will be there at 7 or beyond. With regards to Cam going to Chicago:

Why would they cut him if Chicago is willing to give up anything in exchange for him? If Chicago isn't willing, is it really so imperative to play your rookie qb behind a godawful oline rather than let him sit for a year behinid your established vet showcasing his skills to the league? I could see a scenario in which they do draft a qb, sit him, let Cam play and go from there, with everybody on the same page that Cam is effectively showcasing himself to the rest of the league. That's a potential win win, except that if I'm Cam, I'm really gonna want them to have done everything they can to fix that line, but hey, that's not his call, right?

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Hoping your wrong about that last part, afraid you're right. With regards to the first part, I mean I personally am not excited about any of the qb's not named Burrow in this draft, granted since I don't follow college ball all that closely, what do I know? But that has no real bearing on whether the decision makers do. I'm inclined to say Rhule shouldn't necessarily be telling Hurney he's got to have a qb right this second, but for all I know, he might, or he might be really high on someone who will be there at 7 or beyond. With regards to Cam going to Chicago:

Why would they cut him if Chicago is willing to give up anything in exchange for him? If Chicago isn't willing, is it really so imperative to play your rookie qb behind a godawful oline rather than let him sit for a year behinid your established vet showcasing his skills to the league? I could see a scenario in which they do draft a qb, sit him, let Cam play and go from there, with everybody on the same page that Cam is effectively showcasing himself to the rest of the league. That's a potential win win, except that if I'm Cam, I'm really gonna want them to have done everything they can to fix that line, but hey, that's not his call, right?

Thats all fine and good if............Cam plays out his deal.  Which I dont think he will.  If he wants to go to Chicago see if we could get a 2nd for him but that is only after talking to the Raiders.  But again how is anyone going to know if he is healthy?  Like I said the timing is crappy for everyone.

 

I think Rhule and Co are going to target a qb in the second.  I dont think Marty is going to be anywhere near picking this draft.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Thats all fine and good if............Cam plays out his deal.  Which I dont think he will.  If he wants to go to Chicago see if we could get a 2nd for him but that is only after talking to the Raiders.  But again how is anyone going to know if he is healthy?  Like I said the timing is crappy for everyone.

 

I think Rhule and Co are going to target a qb in the second.  I dont think Marty is going to be anywhere near picking this draft.

See I don't think anybody wants to give up anything worth a poo for him until they see what he's still got. I think as much as anything that drives him playing for us. I think Cam really has no choice but to play for us next year if he wants to continue to play football. I mean, what are his options otherwise? If he sits out the whole year, isn't he still under contract with us? I don't know for sure, but I don't think sitting on the sideline gets you out of a contract. I mean I understand why he wants an extension, but I want a date with Olivia Munn, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Now if I'm wrong and Chicago or the Raiders are willing to give up a 2nd to take a gamble on him, maybe the Panthers do let him go for that. I could see that working from their end if they really felt he wasn't in their long term plans. I just think if you're the Panthers and you have him now, even if the odds are a bit long, you see what he's got left before you let him go, because if he's able, then you just solved your single biggest problem right there without spending a single draft pick. That's too much of an upside to ignore, if even it's unlikely.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Thats all fine and good if............Cam plays out his deal.  Which I dont think he will.  If he wants to go to Chicago see if we could get a 2nd for him but that is only after talking to the Raiders.  But again how is anyone going to know if he is healthy?  Like I said the timing is crappy for everyone.

 

I think Rhule and Co are going to target a qb in the second.  I dont think Marty is going to be anywhere near picking this draft.

What makes you so sure Cam doesn't finish out his current deal? In what possible way does signing an extension with this team or another team before this season benefit Cam? Whereas, if he plays on his current deal and has a really good year and proves to whatever team hes on that he can still play he'd make a ton more money. And with the type of guy Cam is I guarantee you he bets on himself this year. Because he doesn't believe "hes done" or he "can't play" anymore

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

What makes you so sure Cam doesn't finish out his current deal? In what possible way does signing an extension with this team or another team before this season benefit Cam? Whereas, if he plays on his current deal and has a really good year and proves to whatever team hes on that he can still play he'd make a ton more money. And with the type of guy Cam is I guarantee you he bets on himself this year. Because he doesn't believe "hes done" or he "can't play" anymore

Maybe he is still hurt and doesnt want to risk it. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Maybe he is still hurt and doesnt want to risk it. 

Maybe and that's always possible but why not just retire at that point? Cam is already pretty well set he doesn't NEED football to be financially stable anymore. If Cam truly felt like he couldn't play I think he'd retire rather than trying to milk out whatever contract gets thrown his way