How many GM's draft better than Hurney?

[thefuzz]

Just now, Tbe said:

Fun fact. Schneider has been terrible in the 1st round. However, his (and Carrol’s) ability to find multiple diamonds in later rounds make up for it. 

They also tend to draft at the back end of the 1st, which surely hurts, similar to the Pats...their 1st rounders don't usually look so hot, but they are also always outside the top 26.

[Ricky Spanish]

9 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

Gettlemans picks in 2014,2016 1st round were bus. 2015 we were clearly desperate and spent 3 picks on db, but drafted a DT from buffalo in the 1st round. Hurney's issue isn't identifying talent, it's identifying strength and weakness. Gettlemans was obsessed with lineman.

You're only focused on the first round. No argument from me that Hurney is better at drafting in the first. It's all the other rounds he was far worse at. Even with the terrible 2016 draft from gettleman, his guys on average had a higher floor than guys Hurney drafted. With hurney it's HOFer or bust, no in between with far more Busts than HOFers. With Gettleman you got slightly above average to average with a handful of downright busts. More consistent averages. 

Hurney's standard deviation is stupid high, Gettleman's was tighter. 

[Tbe]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

They also tend to draft at the back end of the 1st, which surely hurts, similar to the Pats...their 1st rounders don't usually look so hot, but they are also always outside the top 26.

Yep, they trade out of the 1st a lot as well.

I remember hearing that they were going to draft butler but we got him first. Kiss of death.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

If the draft were all that you judged Hurney by, he may get a C.

It's the rest of the job that he is really, really bad at.

And that grade is helped a lot by draft position.

As has been said numerous times, Hurney only looks good if you focus narrowly on certain aspects of the job. 

If you actually are the whole picture, it's obvious he's awful at his job.

[thefuzz]

24 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Yep, they trade out of the 1st a lot as well.

I remember hearing that they were going to draft butler but we got him first. Kiss of death.

I'm more inclined to beat on a guy for routinely drafting in the top half of the 1st round, rather than praise him for making a top 16 pick be a player.

I really am intrigued by Butler, wonder if he can put it all together at his next stop?

 

[panther4life]

Hurney 3rd rounders from 02 to 2012

worthy of the pick:

Will Witherspoon

Ricky Manning Jr

Travelle Wharton

Evan Mathis

James Anderson

Charles Johnson

Charles Godfrey 

Dan Conner 

Brandon Lafell

Not worthy:

Mike Seidman

Rahard Butler

Aatiyah Ellison

Corvey Irvin

Armanti Edwards 

Mccalin 

Fua

To me that’s a 56% 9 Of 16

hit rate on 3rd rounders not too bad for someone who supposedly can only draft well inside round 1.

To be fair I’d say his 2nd round is actually worse:

I have 3 worthy of the selection:

Deshaun Foster

Ryan Kalil

Richard Marshall

vs 6 not worthy.

Bruce Nelson, Keary Colbert, Eric Shelton,Dwayne Jarrett, Sherrod Martin, Amini Silatolu.

Thats a 33% hit ratio. 
 

Then we all know he’s 100% in the first. That puts him at 10/10 in the same time period.

That’s  35 picks inside the first 3 rounds. 
 I’ve got him hitting on 22 of the 35. Let’s say I gave him too much credit for 4 of those picks.
 

That would still be over 50% success rate inside the 3 rounds!!
 

Yes 4 of those first rounders were top 10 picks.Btw you should check out the other top 10 picks in those years and see how many of them panned out!  He also picked 25th or later 3 of those times. The other 3 first rounders were 13,14 and 19. 
 

 

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Hurney 3rd rounders from 02 to 2012

worthy of the pick:

Will Witherspoon

Ricky Manning Jr

Travelle Wharton

Evan Mathis

James Anderson

Charles Johnson

Charles Godfrey 

Dan Conner 

Brandon Lafell

Not worthy:

Mike Seidman

Rahard Butler

Aatiyah Ellison

Corvey Irvin

Armanti Edwards 

Mccalin 

Fua

To me that’s a 56% 9 Of 16

hit rate on 3rd rounders not too bad for someone who supposedly can only draft well inside round 1.

To be fair I’d say his 2nd round is actually worse:

I have 3 worthy of the selection:

Deshaun Foster

Ryan Kalil

Richard Marshall

vs 6 not worthy.

Bruce Nelson, Keary Colbert, Eric Shelton,Dwayne Jarrett, Sherrod Martin, Amini Silatolu.

Thats a 33% hit ratio. 
 

Then we all know he’s 100% in the first. That puts him at 10/10 in the same time period.

That’s  35 picks inside the first 3 rounds. 
 I’ve got him hitting on 22 of the 35. Let’s say I gave him too much credit for 4 of those picks.
 

That would still be over 50% success rate inside the 3 rounds!!
 

Yes 4 of those first rounders were top 10 picks.Btw you should check out the other top 10 picks in those years and see how many of them panned out!  He also picked 25th or later 3 of those times. The other 3 first rounders were 13,14 and 19. 
 

 

The draft is important, and while I 100% think that you sugar coated his draft history, especially when considering you didn't talk about what we gave up for Edwards, and what we gave up for Brown...but whatever.

That is only a small portion of what the GM is in position to do....the rest of his work is a solid F.  His contracts have historically been terrible, he pays players for what they did, not what's next, he can't build depth or a full roster, he restructures contracts on aging players for no reason at all...his salary cap management is god awful.....we could go on.

 

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Hurney 3rd rounders from 02 to 2012

worthy of the pick:

Will Witherspoon

Ricky Manning Jr

Travelle Wharton

Evan Mathis

James Anderson

Charles Johnson

Charles Godfrey 

Dan Conner 

Brandon Lafell

Not worthy:

Mike Seidman

Rahard Butler

Aatiyah Ellison

Corvey Irvin

Armanti Edwards 

Mccalin 

Fua

To me that’s a 56% 9 Of 16

hit rate on 3rd rounders not too bad for someone who supposedly can only draft well inside round 1.

To be fair I’d say his 2nd round is actually worse:

I have 3 worthy of the selection:

Deshaun Foster

Ryan Kalil

Richard Marshall

vs 6 not worthy.

Bruce Nelson, Keary Colbert, Eric Shelton,Dwayne Jarrett, Sherrod Martin, Amini Silatolu.

Thats a 33% hit ratio. 
 

Then we all know he’s 100% in the first. That puts him at 10/10 in the same time period.

That’s  35 picks inside the first 3 rounds. 
 I’ve got him hitting on 22 of the 35. Let’s say I gave him too much credit for 4 of those picks.
 

That would still be over 50% success rate inside the 3 rounds!!
 

Yes 4 of those first rounders were top 10 picks.Btw you should check out the other top 10 picks in those years and see how many of them panned out!  He also picked 25th or later 3 of those times. The other 3 first rounders were 13,14 and 19. 

Ricky Manning was good for like one season when he was allowed to maul guys. When he was asked to cover? Not so much. He was out of the league in short order.

Likewise, James Anderson was never really that good. And Charles Godfrey, Dan Conner, Richard Marshall and Brandon LaFell? Seriously?!

DeShaun Foster? Decent for a short window but he was chosen above Clinton Portis. Would you go back and make that choice again?

Sheesh!

That's a pretty instructive post, though. Looking at just how low your standards are for saying that somebody is good, I guess I can see now why you think Marty's great at his job.

[panther4life]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ricky Manning was good for like one season when he was allowed to maul guys. When he was asked to cover? Not so much. He was out of the league in short order.

Likewise, James Anderson was never really that good. And Charles Godfrey, Dan Conner, Richard Marshall and Brandon LaFell? Seriously?!

DeShaun Foster? Decent for a short window but he was chosen above Clinton Portis. Would you go back and make that choice again?

Sheesh!

That's a pretty instructive post, though. Looking at just how low your standards are for saying that somebody is good, I guess I can see now why you think Marty's great at his job.

By my count you disagree with 7. I can’t believe your dismissing James Anderson who landed himself a nice contract with the bears after leaving us but I’ll give you all 7.

That’s Still 15 out of 35. That’s still 43% average in the first 3 rounds. 

 

[panther4life]

20 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The draft is important, and while I 100% think that you sugar coated his draft history, especially when considering you didn't talk about what we gave up for Edwards, and what we gave up for Brown...but whatever.

That is only a small portion of what the GM is in position to do....the rest of his work is a solid F.  His contracts have historically been terrible, he pays players for what they did, not what's next, he can't build depth or a full roster, he restructures contracts on aging players for no reason at all...his salary cap management is god awful.....we could go on.

 

Yes we gave up the 17th pick in 2010 for Brown and the 33rd pick for Armanti  Edwards. Bad trades for sure and that certainly lowered his hit ratio in the above stats because those were 2 bust for what otherwise would have likely been good picks for him. 

He’s also made plenty of good trades over the years as well. I’d argue far more good than bad to honest.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, panther4life said:

By my count you disagree with 7. I can’t believe your dismissing James Anderson who landed himself a nice contract with the bears after leaving us but I’ll give you all 7.

That’s Still 15 out of 35. That’s still 43% average in the first 3 rounds. 

Ask the Bears how James Anderson was for them after signing that contract.

Again though, as has been pointed out, you're trying to narrow the focus because you know that if you look at the big picture, it's bad.

I could make a highlight reel of good plays made by Jimmy Clausen and declare that as proof that he was a great quarterback. It'd basically be the same thing as what you're doing with Marty Hurney.

He's a terrible GM, and the team would be far better off without him. 

[The Natural]

This is great Scot bait.

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Yes we gave up the 17th pick in 2010 for Brown and the 33rd pick for Armanti  Edwards. Bad trades for sure and that certainly lowered his hit ratio in the above stats because those were 2 bust for what otherwise would have likely been good picks for him. 

He’s also made plenty of good trades over the years as well. I’d argue far more good than bad to honest.

 

Name the draft trades that have ended well.

He did trade for GO, which is the best trade to date in the franchise, but I don't recall too many draft trades working in Marty's favor.

And yes, trading up for Brown was awful, trading for Edwards was awful, trading up for Otah got us in the ass as well.

 

[panther4life]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ask the Bears how James Anderson was for them after signing that contract.

Again though, as has been pointed out, you're trying to narrow the focus because you know that if you look at the big picture, it's bad.

I could make a highlight reel of good plays made by Jimmy Clausen and declare that as proof that he was a great quarterback. It'd basically be the same thing as what you're doing with Marty Hurney.

He's a terrible GM, and the team would be far better off without him. 

I’m not narrowing the focus at all. I’ve said many times the only argument one needs to make against Hurney is his overall record as GM.

But many here hate  him so much and start attributing blame to him that’s unjust imo. 

To me the things I say in his favor are no different than what Tepper says in his favor.