Steve Smith: Bridgewater is QB for "right now"

[Vagrant]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

TLDR version:

is that how you handle all counterpoints to posts you make? you probably don't learn a lot if that's the case. i appreciate the stat you quoted as relevant, but disagree with the application. that isn't "rejecting reality," it's interpreting stats and attempting to generate a conclusion the same as you did. only my interpretation offered context while yours suggested that snap time to throw time was always better if lower. maybe the guys near the top of that list just don't wait long enough for routes to develop? there's a ton of counters to be made to your insinuation that don't fit the narrative you're trying to shoehorn. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Vagrant said:

is that how you handle all counterpoints to posts you make? you probably don't learn a lot if that's the case. i appreciate the stat you quoted as relevant, but disagree with the application. that isn't "rejecting reality," it's interpreting stats and attempting to generate a conclusion the same as you did. only my interpretation offered context while yours suggested that snap time to throw time was always better if lower. maybe the guys near the top of that list just don't wait long enough for routes to develop? there's a ton of counters to be made to your insinuation that don't fit the narrative you're trying to shoehorn. 

I posted actual numbers to support my case. You're just talking in circles.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

I will tell you as a massive fan of Teddy, I'm fine with either outcome. I do think Teddy can be a good QB in the NFL as a full time starter, but I also realize that the league is tough, and the Not For Long abbreviation is around for a good reason.

I do know with absolute confidence that no matter what hand we're dealt, that Teddy will work relentlessly to make the Panthers a better team in his time here. If that means he is the starting QB and a face of the franchise, he'll do it. If it means that he's the mentor to a younger QB, and the eventually backup, he'll do it tirelessly.

When he's done here, regardless of what happens, most Panther fans are going to be really sad to see him go. He is simply one fantastic dude.

Yeah, keep in mind, nothing about my opinion on Teddy as our QB is to reflect poorly on him as a person. I think it's highly likely that's a big part of him being here. I honestly think we signed him to be the Alex Smith for our as yet to be announced Patrick Mahomes hopeful.

If it ends up playing out like that where Teddy plays well enough for us to trade him for a 2nd round pick while he does a great job of helping a young guy transition to the league who turns out to be an NFL MVP... well, I think everyone will be very, VERY happy with that outcome.

[Vagrant]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I posted actual numbers to support my case. You're just talking in circles.

stats are useless without context. if you don't believe that, that's sad but you're entitled to it. how you became a mod being so obtuse is beyond me, but again you're clearly entitled to that too. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Vagrant said:

stats are useless without context. if you don't believe that, that's sad but you're entitled to it. how you became a mod being so obtuse is beyond me, but again you're clearly entitled to that too. 

You just didn't like the context. Reality didn't jive well with the theory that you'd concocted which honestly sounded good until I looked at some numbers. Then you started moving goalposts.

[Vagrant]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You just didn't like the context. Reality didn't jive well with the theory that you'd concocted which honestly sounded good until I looked at some numbers. Then you started moving goalposts.

no, what you did was post numbers totally devoid of explanation in response to one of my posts about quarterbacks getting sacked a lot and used a stat that isn't solely correlative to sensing pressure. quarterbacks throw the ball for a variety of reasons, the most common being that they see an open target. the numbers you provided were inapplicable for that reason, because the conclusion that you drew would be suggesting that the only reason a quarterback throws is because he senses pressure, do you understand? lower number = better sense of pressure. that isn't always the case. jimmy clausen used to take two step drops and rip that poo over the team bench about 1.5 seconds post snap. what's the deal with there being such cognitive dissonance that people look at rational objections to things they present as fact with skepticism instead of introspection? 

[RASTAN66]

4 hours ago, Madwolf said:

When he's done here, regardless of what happens, most Panther fans are going to be really sad to see him go. He is simply one fantastic dude.

I truly believe Teddy has upside potential akin to Drew Brees -- dead serious.

Tepper made his fortune identifying insane value and capitalizing on it...

Teddy could be analogous to Tepper's BAC trade which made him and his partners an insane amount of benjamins!

[LinvilleGorge]

4 hours ago, Vagrant said:

no, what you did was post numbers totally devoid of explanation in response to one of my posts about quarterbacks getting sacked a lot and used a stat that isn't solely correlative to sensing pressure. quarterbacks throw the ball for a variety of reasons, the most common being that they see an open target. the numbers you provided were inapplicable for that reason, because the conclusion that you drew would be suggesting that the only reason a quarterback throws is because he senses pressure, do you understand? lower number = better sense of pressure. that isn't always the case. jimmy clausen used to take two step drops and rip that poo over the team bench about 1.5 seconds post snap. what's the deal with there being such cognitive dissonance that people look at rational objections to things they present as fact with skepticism instead of introspection? 

Teddy was 23rd in the league in average time to throw in the same offense (actually a dumbed down version) that Drew Brees was 2nd in the league in. I get it, your idea made sense on the surface. That's why I actually looked into it. It just didn't hold up to scrutiny. 

[ForJimmy]

Defense would be terrible, but offense would be very entertaining...

[RASTAN66]

It's Teddy Time. 

Rhule's Rules rule.

Haters gonna hate.

[Vagrant]

14 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Teddy was 23rd in the league in average time to throw in the same offense (actually a dumbed down version) that Drew Brees was 2nd in the league in. I get it, your idea made sense on the surface. That's why I actually looked into it. It just didn't hold up to scrutiny. 

what didn't hold up? you're not even arguing a point. you're just saying "well stats say this..." without saying what you believe the stat to mean. you can't have this discussion without defining your interpretation of the stat. are you saying that a lower time to throw is unequivocally the metric that measures how a quarterback responds to pressure and therefore is relevant to this subject? if so, that's a contention i disagree with as outlined above that you dismissed as talking in circles because it was inconvenient to your interpretation. i'm not trying to trick you. it's just genuinely not a tenable position to use that one stat as evidence of anything except what it literally represents. any conjecture you make based on that stat isn't fact, it's interpretation. if you can't explain the interpretation, you don't have a point. 

[Khyber53]

I think if we go Qb it'll be Jalen Hurt if he is available at our pick in round 2, or Jacob Eason in round 4 or 5 if he is still there.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Vagrant said:

what didn't hold up? you're not even arguing a point. you're just saying "well stats say this..." without saying what you believe the stat to mean. you can't have this discussion without defining your interpretation of the stat. are you saying that a lower time to throw is unequivocally the metric that measures how a quarterback responds to pressure and therefore is relevant to this subject? if so, that's a contention i disagree with as outlined above that you dismissed as talking in circles because it was inconvenient to your interpretation. i'm not trying to trick you. it's just genuinely not a tenable position to use that one stat as evidence of anything except what it literally represents. any conjecture you make based on that stat isn't fact, it's interpretation. if you can't explain the interpretation, you don't have a point. 

The stats point to Teddy not being a super quick processor and ball deliverer on the field. I really didn't think I had to explain that.

[Vagrant]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The stats point to Teddy not being a super quick processor and ball deliverer on the field. I really didn't think I had to explain that.

you absolutely do have to explain that, because it's not something that is self-evident based on the stat. if it were, it would be called the super quick processor and ball deliverer stat and not average time from snap to throw. this is the problem with analytics in the hands of those that don't know what they mean/can't understand the nuance. the truth is that nobody knows exactly what all these stats mean individually, because they're without context. as an exercise, say that you have two routes. one of the routes is a checkdown and the other is a late developing double move. your quarterback panics at the LOS and goes to the checkdown before the late developing route has time to develop, missing a walk in touchdown as the DB slips on the double move. he got the ball out in 1.94 seconds. that play would reflect positively on your metric. another example, the pass rush is coming hot but they've neglected to cover the slot man. the ball is snapped and the RG misses his assignment and the pass rush is in the QB's lap. instead of seeing the exposed route, he tosses it into the RB feet at 0.78 seconds after the snap. another positive play by your metric. neither of these plays match your description of the stat. so who is wrong here? your simple interpretation of the stat or perhaps the stat is just one of many tools to attempt to create a comprehensive picture and not a stand-alone metric to determine anything in particular? 

anyways, that's enough. i hope you understand some of that and use it moving forward. the game isn't as simple as any single metric would have you believe no matter how many PFT armchair quarterbacks would attempt to ascribe meaning to them. always, always attempt to negate the relevance of a stat as a means by which to test it for relevance. that's the scientific approach. what remains irrefutable after that exercise is what you should take that stat to mean.