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Partial explanation for the challenge loss

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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TheCasillas Grand Master

TheCasillas

Posted
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5 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

Yeah, no excuse.  You have the TV broadcast...  if there was any doubt, get up there and spike it.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/04/ref-made-the-right-call-on-patrick-mahomes-grounding-penalty/

 

Spiking the ball was not an option for us. This concept of having the option to spike the ball needs to stop.

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Proudiddy Grand Master

Proudiddy

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7 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/04/ref-made-the-right-call-on-patrick-mahomes-grounding-penalty/

 

Spiking the ball was not an option for us. This concept of having the option to spike the ball needs to stop.

Yes, because everyone knows that off the top of their head.  The article you linked is literally having to defend the officials over the call because it is so obscure, and they mention an officiating crew missed the same call two years before.  And the announcers of our game, including a former NFL player, said we should've spiked it lol.

But, now that you dug up an article proving that an officiating crew may or may not have known it was a penalty, it's also on the coaching staff to have a play ready to be run if the completion took place and we didn't get out of bounds...  yet, they didn't.

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TheCasillas Grand Master

TheCasillas

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46 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yes, because everyone knows that off the top of their head.  The article you linked is literally having to defend the officials over the call because it is so obscure, and they mention an officiating crew missed the same call two years before.  And the announcers of our game, including a former NFL player, said we should've spiked it lol.

But, now that you dug up an article proving that an officiating crew may or may not have known it was a penalty, it's also on the coaching staff to have a play ready to be run if the completion took place and we didn't get out of bounds...  yet, they didn't.

so your counter argument here is ... maybe the refs wouldn't know the rule? It is a penalty. Why would we spike the ball knowing it is a penalty to spike the ball with a stopped clock? 

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BrianS Veteran

BrianS

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So, the bottom line is that our coaches actually DIDN'T make a mistake by having TB5 spike it.  Our coaches got it right.  Had they, as the announcers suggested, run up and spiked it, we would have been penalized.  Not sure how the 10 second runoff might have applied there, since technically the clock would have been stopped prior to the play.  It's possible they would have incurred the runoff as well, since the clock would have started when the ball snapped.

On the other hand, our organization MAY gotten it wrong by not providing a view of the jumbotron via closed circuit to the coaches in the box.  However, the reason it's not certain is that it could be the case that if we provide our coaches in the box with a view of the jumbotron footage, we'd likewise be required to provide our opponents the same thing.  The NFL does like to keep things "even" like that.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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1 hour ago, Proudiddy said:

Yes, because everyone knows that off the top of their head.  The article you linked is literally having to defend the officials over the call because it is so obscure, and they mention an officiating crew missed the same call two years before.  And the announcers of our game, including a former NFL player, said we should've spiked it lol.

But, now that you dug up an article proving that an officiating crew may or may not have known it was a penalty, it's also on the coaching staff to have a play ready to be run if the completion took place and we didn't get out of bounds...  yet, they didn't.

The right call is the right call, regardless of whether any or all of us knew it or not.

When it comes to the coaching staff though, it's their job to know the rules. Whether or not they knew this particular one, I couldn't tell you.

What I can tell you is it as far as they knew, the catch wasn't in question. That meant they saw no reason to go ahead and run a quick play.

This also means that people blaming Teddy Bridgewater are completely off base. It's not his role to know those things. That's on the coaches.

 

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cookinbrak Grand Master

cookinbrak

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1 hour ago, TheCasillas said:

so your counter argument here is ... maybe the refs wouldn't know the rule? It is a penalty. Why would we spike the ball knowing it is a penalty to spike the ball with a stopped clock? 

So it would have been a 2 yard loss and loss of down. As opposed to a 45 yard loss. Makes sense...

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TheCasillas Grand Master

TheCasillas

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2 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

So it would have been a 2 yard loss and loss of down. As opposed to a 45 yard loss. Makes sense...

 

The penalty for intentional grounding has several components so that the offense gains no benefit from the violation:

  • The offense is penalized 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, or (in the NFL only) the ball is placed at the spot of the pass if that is less advantageous.
  • The offense loses the down rather than replaying the down, as is the case for most other penalties.
  • If the quarterback threw the pass from his team's own end zone, the penalty results in a safety being scored by the defense.[5]
  • Like many offensive penalties, intentional grounding committed near the end of either half results in a ten-second runoff of the game clock, if the defense desires. This ensures that intentional grounding is not an effective means of clock management.
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