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Revisiting Brown vs Simmons...

micnificent28

By micnificent28,
in Carolina Panthers

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

Posted
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3 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Yes that is true. You know it's bad when Hurney was the smart guy in the room. Seeing Herbert have the best season of a rookie QB ever last year was the first MAJOR red flag for Rhule for me.

I never thought about that, but you're entirely right (not that it would've changed anything). I guess I could've resigned myself to the belief a little sooner that Rhule isn't trustworthy when evaluating QB talent. I don't trust him any more than I'd trust Deshaun Watson in a massage parlor.

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Squid Game

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53 minutes ago, Toomers said:

No. I gave a perfect example to show your “sacks is all that matters” theory is “chuck-like”. A very well known example to everyone on here. Those are your words. 
 

Suh had 4 sacks his second season. Did he suck? 

I never said it was all about just “sacks”. I said “pass rushing DT”. A penetrating interior DT which that’s not Derrick Brown’s game at all. 

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2 minutes ago, Squid Game said:

And at Utah, Star was constantly wrecking havoc in the back field. 

But his skill set tended far more to being a run stuffer, also look at the importance of vita vea for Tampa, without him the system they run doesn’t work, the same can be said of Phil Snow’s dime defense

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3 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Yes that is true. You know it's bad when Hurney was the smart guy in the room. Seeing Herbert have the best season of a rookie QB ever last year was the first MAJOR red flag for Rhule for me.

Hurney would’ve traded up for Justin Herbert if he has any power or say last year in the draft. We all know that Hurney was obsessed with Herbert. We also know that last year’s draft was all on Rhule’s hands because he has constantly come out and talk about building a defense. Hurney was bad taking players outside the 1st round but his hits in the 1st rounds were the reason why we made two Super Bowl appearances. 

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4 minutes ago, Star Platinum said:

But his skill set tended far more to being a run stuffer, also look at the importance of vita vea for Tampa, without him the system they run doesn’t work, the same can be said of Phil Snow’s dime defense

Vita Vea is wrecking his opponents each week. The guy is getting in the back field still being doubled. Brown? The kid disappeared after week 1 vs a bad Jets OL until finally showing up again last week. I wouldn’t be hating on Brown so much if he could be a force in stopping the run like Star. I understand that he’s still young and is only in his 2nd season but so far this isn’t what you want out of a former 7th overall pick. 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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2 minutes ago, Squid Game said:

Hurney would’ve traded up for Justin Herbert if he has any power or say last year in the draft. We all know that Hurney was obsessed with Herbert. We also know that last year’s draft was all on Rhule’s hands because he has constantly come out and talk about building a defense. Hurney was bad taking players outside the 1st round but his hits in the 1st rounds were the reason why we made two Super Bowl appearances. 

Do we have any evidence he would have traded up?  Yes, hurney 1.0 loved to trade up but all I'd heard is we wanted Herbert but he didn't fall to us.

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Just now, Squid Game said:

Vita Vea is wrecking his opponents each week. The guy is getting in the back field still being doubled. Brown? The kid disappeared after week 1 vs a bad Jets OL until finally showing up again last week. 

That’s a fair point however, he was drafted with the expectation he be Vita Vea/Suh, if he fails well, then it was a mistake and we will still need a lineman of that type, but the thought behind that pick was a solid one

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Toomers

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5 minutes ago, Squid Game said:

I never said it was all about just “sacks”. I said “pass rushing DT”. A penetrating interior DT which that’s not Derrick Brown’s game at all. 

When pass rush win rate was referenced, you claimed “what about a sacks? ”. Suh had 4 sacks his second year? Did he not play well or was he double-teamed constantly like Brown is? You just do your usual move the goalposts and “chuck” out any info that doesn’t fit the agenda. 

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Just now, mav1234 said:

Do we have any evidence he would have traded up?  Yes, hurney 1.0 loved to trade up but all I'd heard is we wanted Herbert but he didn't fall to us.

I don’t have any evidence. I just know that if Hurney was given some sort of power, he would have. The man always go and get who he wants. 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Squid Game said:

Vita Vea is wrecking his opponents each week. The guy is getting in the back field still being doubled. Brown? The kid disappeared after week 1 vs a bad Jets OL until finally showing up again last week. I wouldn’t be hating on Brown so much if he could be a force in stopping the run like Star. 

I dunno man I see Brown taking up space making plays and forcing runs outside.  Brown has more sacks, more TFL, more tackles than Vea. Vea has 1 more QB hit...

Edit: not saying Brown is better but he is producing and imo he is playing an important role in the defense.

Edited by mav1234
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2 minutes ago, Star Platinum said:

That’s a fair point however, he was drafted with the expectation he be Vita Vea/Suh, if he fails well, then it was a mistake and we will still need a lineman of that type, but the thought behind that pick was a solid one

I would’ve been fine if we had trade down and got Brown. End of the day, the Brown pick was a reach and the weak class last year did play a part in why Rhule took him with the 7th pick. I’m more upset with Rhule’s bad decisions making than Brown. I’m still rooting for the kid. 

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Just now, Squid Game said:

I would’ve been fine if we had trade down and got Brown. End of the day, the Brown pick was a reach and the weak class last year did play a part in why Rhule took him with the 7th pick. I’m more upset with Rhule’s bad decisions making than Brown. I’m still rooting for the kid. 

Me too I like him a lot, to be honest with his intangibles I fully believe he will be our defenses heart for 10+ years, even if his productions don’t show it and at the end of the day you need a guy like that, regardless I respect your statement and I do hope his numbers come up.

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