Re: Last year's defense

[KSpan]

18 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Of all the pointless stats I've seen this one might take the cake.

Bingo. Were they the worst defense in the league, particularly when factoring in the offense? No. Were they legitimately a top-tier NFL defense? Absolutely not. This was an average-at-best unit that was bolstered by feasting on poor competition for a portion of the season and having low yards against, ironically, due to the poor offense.

[poundaway]

4 hours ago, CamTheMan said:

The defense was 8th in rush yards per attempt. We got killed by volume, not efficiency. First half rushing yards were 3.8 YPA, which would have been top 3 in the NFL.

This.

They ran on us because they didn't want to pass often for whatever reason.    If we didn't have the 32nd ranked defensive starting  field position and the 2nd most defensive drives, we wouldn't be talking about the run game.

We lost Reddick and Gilmore.  We are going to see what the D looks like without 2 of the best players.  I hope they prove the naysayers wrong.

[Mr. Scot]

12 hours ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Let's keep in mind when citing rushing statistics that we had 8 games against the bottom 9 teams in the league.  We did extremely well against some of them and only had two games in which one of those opponents put up more than 125 yards.

If you have half your season against the bottom of the barrel in rushing, you better have decent numbers by season's end.

We had 5 games against the top 10 teams and with one exception were not impressive.  Those numbers are inherently skewed.

And gave up a ridiculous amount of points to some of those terrible teams.

But hey, #2 defense, right?

Edited July 24, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[KSpan]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And gave up a ridiculous amount of points to some of those terrible teams.

But hey, #2 defense, right?

I don't understand how anyone who actually watched several, if not most/all, of the games last year can honestly state that the defense deserves to be considered top-tier. There is no comparison to years like 2013 where they were legitimately fearsome, and while the offense sure didn't help things it's not like other teams struggled to move the ball at all.

The defense wasn't bottom tier across the board but they were pretty average, looking solid in some ways and very exposed in others, and with Phil Snow still around I'm not sure where the argument that the strategy and scheming will magically improve is coming from. At least in the other phases people can put on the rose-colored glasses and hope for the best when it comes to change and McAdoo, Campen, Tabor, etc, but the defense had no such changing of the guard. They're poised to continue to be pretty average at best, good at times (particularly against any weaker competition Carolina comes across) and schematically abused by superior offensive minds in others. 

This '#2 defense' stuff is just silly.

Edited July 24, 2022 by KSpan

[davos]

My big issue is Snow's unit as a whole last year lacked stamina.  With how Snow has deployed these guys, you really need 2 all-around LBs you can leave out there consistently and a front with at least (3) 3-down linemen that can get pressure without blitzing.  This is mainly because he leaves so many DBs out there with his gimmicky 3-3-5 & 4-2-5 disguised alignments.  DBs mostly 2 hybrids safeties (dependent on offense), 2 corners, & 1 free safety.  We even played something like 10%+ of 3-2-6 which got Taylor on the field. 

Last year, we had Chinn & Burris as the primary safeties, 2-3 of Gilmore/Jackson/Bouye/Hendo/Taylor (injury dependent), & Hartsfield starting consistently in these weird packages.  We played Hartsfield a lot...     

If they're not balanced with a stout line that pushes the OL backwards, we're in trouble and it's what we saw. We spent so much time disguising looks with DBs and have these odd formations where sure, Reddick could take advantage, but it was a very stat padding defense that didn't have consistency. 

Jones DT was a vet bust for us and was a big part of it.  It seemed he really operated on his own and didn't help Brown out much (who had his own issues).  Burns wasn't good enough against the run.  Our best statistical downs were with YGM and Fox in the lineup in more tradition 4-3 alignments.    

Our DBs made plays/breakups to swing momentum, had good stops, but when a team needed to grind it out against us, using bunch formations, play action, and tight-ends, we got destroyed.  And then once the DBs were tired, they could take the top off.

Best guess, for Snow's 2022 sub-packages (that is really 80% of our defense) our main DBs this year will be S-Chinn, Burris CB-Horn, Jackson, Hendo, Taylor FS-Woods

Likely will take Burris out on more nickel & base looks and have Chinn & Woods at the safety spots.  Bring in Taylor or Henderson more for those packages.  

Thing I still don't like is we have an underachieving Littleton, Shaq (who's slightly above average), Luuvu, & Wilson TBD as our LBs and none really give me any confidence to control the field.  Especially when they're behind Brown, Roy/Hoskins/Nixon, Burns, Haynes, & YGM.

LB & DL will be our next big needs coming out of this season methinks.  We also have a crew that's personnel wise will need to change a lot for a new coach so I anticipate a LOT of defensive turnover if this is Rhule/Snow's last year.     

[Camp Fodder]

22 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Yeah but there were instances like the Vikings game where Sam actually had that great drive to tie the game only for the defense to just let them march right down the field in OT.

 

There was more than one game we could have won where they let the other team just march down the field.

Cowboys, Vikings and commanders losses were on the defense. The others not do much

[Mage]

18 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

What takes "mental gymnastics" is suggesting that the defense was actually good.

And no, it isn't all because of the offense. Yes, they were terrible and put us in bad situations, but the defense got run over even when they didn't.

Saying it as if this isn't a major factor is laughable.  The Panthers defense had the worst starting field position in the NFL.  They ranked 6th in net passing yards per attempt and 8th in rushing yards per attempt.

The consistently terrible field position is absolutely the main reason behind the failed leads.  

[Mr. Scot]

35 minutes ago, Mage said:

Saying it as if this isn't a major factor is laughable.  The Panthers defense had the worst starting field position in the NFL.  They ranked 6th in net passing yards per attempt and 8th in rushing yards per attempt.

The consistently terrible field position is absolutely the main reason behind the failed leads.  

Stats and rankings don't mean sh-t when you're losing games.

And yes, poor offense is a factor (never denied that) but using that to say the defense was good is just invalid. The defense sucked from early on in the game, way too soon to blame fatigue.

As mentioned, if you can't consistently get through one half of football or come back from halftime looking at least somewhat effective, you've got no claim to being a good defense no matter how bad the offense is.

Hell, the Ravens Super Bowl team got through an entire year, playoffs and a championship game despite an offense that was barely functional. That's a unit that can claim to be great.

Ours can't even credibly claim to be good.

[poundaway]

44 minutes ago, Mage said:

Saying it as if this isn't a major factor is laughable.  The Panthers defense had the worst starting field position in the NFL.  They ranked 6th in net passing yards per attempt and 8th in rushing yards per attempt.

The consistently terrible field position is absolutely the main reason behind the failed leads.  

Stop with the logic.  We don't do that here.

 

 

[poundaway]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Stats and rankings don't mean sh-t when you're losing games.

And yes, poor offense is a factor (never denied that) but using that to say the defense was good is just invalid. The defense sucked from early on in the game, way too soon to blame fatigue.

As mentioned, if you can't consistently get through one half of football or come back from halftime looking at least somewhat effective, you've got no claim to being a good defense no matter how bad the offense is.

Hell, the Ravens Super Bowl team got through an entire year, playoffs and a championship game despite an offense that was barely functional. That's a unit that can claim to be great.

Ours can't even credibly claim to be good.

Tell me you don't know anything about football without saying you don't know anything about football.

Edited July 24, 2022 by poundaway

[Mage]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Stats and rankings don't mean sh-t when you're losing games.

Lol. You are such a sh*t poster.

By this logic, no team with a losing record can claim to have a good defense? 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Mage

[Mage]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Hell, the Ravens Super Bowl team got through an entire year, playoffs and a championship game despite an offense that was barely functional. That's a unit that can claim to be great.

My mans is really using the 2000 Baltimore Ravens defense as a way to slight ours.  

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Mage said:

Lol. You are such a sh*t poster.

As well thought out a response as I'd expect from you.

Let me know the next time people are up for celebrating a 5-12 season because "Hey, we had damn good stats!"

Edited July 24, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Mage]

Panthers allowed the 8th fewest first downs in the NFL and led the league in shortest number of plays per drive allowed.  

"Wasn't a good defense"