Why the Panthers Should NOT want Ben Johnson

[Steelo]

Just now, nctommy said:

hahaha,  Shows you how much I don't care if he is the coach when I get his name wrong.  15 mil is ridiculous for an unproven coach.  Even coaches with extensions after winning Super Bowls are lower than that. 

Meh I don't care much for coach salaries, they are gonna continue to evolve just like player salaries.  If not with per year salaries then avg length of contract.  Stuff I don't really care to get into because it doesn't stop us from making roster moves and the like.  That's for other owners to poo poo and get up in arms about.

[csx]

4 minutes ago, Steelo said:

Yeah, lightning in a bottle, there are other examples of these type of dudes hitting the ground running.  

I'm leaning towards wanting a defensive coach before the pendulum swings and people realize that there aren't 32 prolific offensive minds that can be HCs.

Though there are certainly some good young offensive head coaches. 

I just think completely ignoring defensive coaches isn't as forward thinking as some profess

[Steelo]

Just now, csx said:

Though there are certainly some good young offensive head coaches. 

I just think completely ignoring defensive coaches isn't as forward thinking as some profess

Absolutely but as the carousel spins its gonna be hot young oc after hot young oc.

Give me Mike MacDonald lol

[CRA]

53 minutes ago, onmyown said:

So Rivera and Fox were ‘leaders of men’. It’s why they preferred vets, they did well with talent already established. They sure as poo weren’t fostering, growing and developing any talent. Losing their way is better than losing trying something else. 

They don’t scheme according to strengths but try and fit players into their scheme. I will even quote I believe it was Fox (paraphrase) in regards to creating mismatches and scheme ‘our guys line up 1v1 and the better player wins, it’s us vs them’. That is a leader of men mindset. You see to these coaches it’s all about principal, whether it makes sense or not. And to the saavy vet who doesn’t need to be taught but led, you can see it being enticing. And thus they are ‘players coaches’. It’s exactly why Fox was such a great fit for the 2014/15 Broncos.

But that mindset is short lived. Eventually the vets phase out.

You don’t develop a young disorganized team like that. Sure a bit is required for any coach to establish a culture and expectations, not arguing that. But young players need teachers and the very best coaches, are teachers and leaders of men but I’d argue more of the former than the latter (Reid, Belicheck etc).

Yeah, people are taking this leader of men tagline and distorting things a bit though.  

I'm talking locker room and culture.   Josh McDaniel knows a lot more about modern day offense than those 2.  Josh McDaniel is a joke coach overall compared to folks like Ron/Fox.   You know who is a culture/locker room guy? The guy that replaced McDaniels in season.  It matters.  Saw the same thing here with Wilks taking over from Rhule.  And that just a tiny window of it applying.  Years of it back to back matters. 

Ron is everyone favorite whipping boy but I'd argue Ron embraced playing to people strengths.  I think his biggest issue was game management and GM/incomplete rosters.  Cam Newton wasn't going to be Cam Newton everywhere.  People blast Ron for catering to Cam's strengths.   But Ron created an environment where that was encouraged and watered.  I'd say the majority of NFL coaches would have stunted Cam Newton's success and tried to "fix him".  He wouldn't of been special.  And his career in reality wasn't cut short by "running him into the ground".  Cam can still do that today. 

Ron also had a lot of talent that wasn't inherited.  Cam became league MVP.  Luke became DPOY.  Greg Olsen became a top tier TE.   Guys like Norman, Star, etc. developed into top guys at their position.  

I think more than anything....the Ron and Fox era should be mostly defined by the lack of a good GM being paired with them.    They were strong defensive minded HCs and coached that way.  Good culture.  Tough teams.   Not great X and O guys offensively but that's not what they were. Not really me preference but it wasn't a losing formula.  I think the lack of pairing them with a good GM was the real blunder.  

 

[Ghostofdelhomme]

How truly innovative is Ben Johnson? Anthony Lynn was the true architect of the Lions offense and made Goff and running attack good. He learned all the secrets after two years?

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

How truly innovative is Ben Johnson? Anthony Lynn was the true architect of the Lions offense and made Goff and running attack good. He learned all the secrets after two years?

Lynn was with the Lions for one season three years ago and got fired. 

[CRA]

40 minutes ago, Steelo said:

The leader of men thing isn't BS maybe a bit overblown but it's still true.  There are plenty of examples of these types of coaches doing well in the NFL.

What does Dan Campbell teach..? Tomlin..? Harbaugh (John) was a ST coach before getting the HC gig.. I mean the hot thing is having some "Offensive Guru" That can make up plays in their sleep, which is def intriguing but at the end of the day he has to lead a room of men. Though, Players are lead by whom they respect. Look at our team twice after the HC has been fired, they play better than before because they are playing for someone they respect.  Some coaches walk in a room and demand respect, some will earn it.  At the end of the day it's luck.  This team absolutely needs a coach who can lead, who can teach, and who can relate to them on certain levels.  There is no cookie cutter answer as shown by the NFL time and time again.

 

yep, and it's glaring even in the short term.  In season.  It matters. 

Rhule to Wilks

McDaniels to Antonio Pierce

and that's short term.  Real culture is when it seeps into the players year over year.  And the real leadership becomes in house as a byproduct of what coaches like them install.  

 

[BlackPanther22]

33 minutes ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

How truly innovative is Ben Johnson? Anthony Lynn was the true architect of the Lions offense and made Goff and running attack good. He learned all the secrets after two years?

The Lions offense was not good when Lynn was the playcaller lol. It’s been well documented how Ben Johnson changed that whole playbook and started playing to the strength of his guys and Goff. Since he’s taken over the Lions offense has been top 5 in the past couple of years. So yeah, Ben Johnson is innovative lol. 
 

We don’t have to talk ourselves into reasons a guy may not be good just because Tepper may like them. There’s a reason Johnson is considered the hottest candidate in the HC cycle this offseason.

[Ghostofdelhomme]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Lynn was with the Lions for one season three years ago and got fired. 

Lynn made every offense he had a juggernaut and he did not get fired.

[Basbear]

Not a fan nor would hate if he became HC. 

All that could change if I knew who hed be hiring at OC, WR, TE, OL, etc. I mean thats my biggest issue for any HC, who are you hiring at those important spots. Cause given the poor talent level, you need coaches that can do more with less talent. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Basbear

[Basbear]

3 minutes ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

Lynn made every offense he had a juggernaut and he did not get fired.

I thought he was buns with herbo and LA??

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

Lynn made every offense he had a juggernaut and he did not get fired.

Riiiiight 🫥

[Ghostofdelhomme]

7 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I thought he was buns with herbo and LA??

He’s a rb specialist, made Melvin Gordon and eckeler, drafted Herbert and Amon Ra, found eckeler on the trash heap and signed for nothing

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

He’s a rb specialist, made Melvin Gordon and eckeler, drafted Herbert and Amon Ra, found eckeler on the trash heap and signed for nothing

So I'm guessing the Chargers didn't fire him either? 🫥