What if Panthers had that 17th pick?

[thefuzz]

Surely that can't be right. Like I said its not there fault they never get gameplaned into or get thrown to. Rosario proved in 08 against the Chargers (along with countless other times) that he was an outstanding receiving TE so did Bardnidge. They both couldn't see the field because King is just that good of a blocker (he's like having a 6th olineman out there) he also has some good hands just not much of an athlete.

IMO we have a great TE corp with tons of potential in fact outside of maybe Jimmy Graham and Hernandez I really wouldn't choose any TE in this draft over what we have.

Well lets just roll through the division then conference.

NFC South

Gonzo

Shockey

Winslow

King

NFC East

Cooley

Boss

Witten

Celek

NFC West

Davis

Patrick

McMichael

Carlson

NFC North

Olsen

Lee/Finley

Shiancoe

Pettigrew

Now I am not trying to bash our guys, and it certainly could be that we are just a running team, that Jake focused on Smitty, blah blah.....

But I do believe that out of those listed above, we are no better than 6th worst, and possibly 2nd or 3rd worst from that list at the TE position.

Again, not bashing, just stating opinion.

Sometimes you have to pass the ball, sometimes the run is not working, sometimes you can't go into a season hoping that the TE position is OK, and that Smitty can catch another 1oo balls this year.

[OneBadassCat]

I think our TE group is pretty solid. Gary and Dante have tons of receiving potential but we are not a pass happy team and having Jake out there doesn't always make the TE's exactly shine.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Based on the opinion of almost every major media outlet and most NFL FO's. He fell last year in a weaker DE class. Do you know why? Because of his size, so unless he grew 2 or 3 inches and put on 15 lbs of muscle he would still be behind Graham who is rated behind Morgan. I thought the reasoning would be obvious guess that was to much to assume.

And this is what they say about Graham. (NFL.com)

19. Atlanta Falcons

Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan

Graham doesn't have ideal size, but his relentless motor and outstanding sack production make him too good to pass up at this pick.

Sounds a bit like Brown last year. I am telling this now. Had Brown stayed at FSU he would have been the top ranked DE coming out this year. But to our advantage we got him a year early so instead of a senior season he got a year of experience in the NFL.

Regardless, to say anyone can see that they would choose Graham over Brown is purely OPINION since it won't ever happen.

You take our previous conversation and let it effect your emotions.

Shows your maturity.

[mick eye]

Well lets just roll through the division then conference.

NFC South

Gonzo

Shockey

Winslow

King

NFC East

Cooley

Boss

Witten

Celek

NFC West

Davis

Patrick

McMichael

Carlson

NFC North

Olsen

Lee/Finley

Shiancoe

Pettigrew

But behind those guys do they have the depth we have?

[rodeo]

I'd use it to get more picks. Maybe pull a reversal and get that teams first next year also.

I'd trade down.

this, pick up an extra 2nd and draft Tate in the 1st, then Alualu and Navorro Bowman in the 2nd

god our fans are so milquetoast.

i dread the day we get a top 5 pick. it'll be nauseating listening to all the people too chicken to actually use it.

[Jackofalltrades]

Gresham would be a good pick, he's like Dallas' Bennett. Great size, speed and would be a match up nightmare IF we used TE's more often.

[jramsey4]

And this is what they say about Graham. (NFL.com)

19. Atlanta Falcons

Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan

Graham doesn't have ideal size, but his relentless motor and outstanding sack production make him too good to pass up at this pick.

Sounds a bit like Brown last year. I am telling this now. Had Brown stayed at FSU he would have been the top ranked DE coming out this year. But to our advantage we got him a year early so instead of a senior season he got a year of experience in the NFL.

Regardless, to say anyone can see that they would choose Graham over Brown is purely OPINION since it won't ever happen. So what your saying is no less an opinion then what I am saying.

You take our previous conversation and let it effect your emotions.

Shows your maturity.

Even if you think they are equals (which I do not) is not Derrick Morgan ranked ahead of Graham almost unanimously, why exactly would Brown by ranked over him? And I think you should be the last person to be preaching about maturity.

And as long as we are on the subject almost every single thread and every comment on this site is an opinion. The only facts in sports are the win-losses and stats.

[Chimera]

Even if you think they are equals (which I do not) is not Derrick Morgan ranked ahead of Graham almost unanimously, why exactly would Brown by ranked over him?

Rankings? Are these rankings made by the same guys who ranked Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman and Tee Martin ahead of Marc Bulger, who was ranked well above Tom Brady?

:rolleyes5:

[Big Ed]

Ever year at draft time every G M. Coach, and their scouts draft the player that in their opinion

Matches their need

Fits the N F L profile for said position

Best Player Avaliable { based on their opinion}

Just like fans with their favorites

{See other post on players you liked that busted}

The draft is like a box of chocolates you really don't know what you have ,untill you bite into it .

The team has no way of knowing who will step up

Comparing Brown to a player who has yet to take an N F L snap !

How do you compare ?

It Is What It Is!!

[brandon_87]

golden tate....

[MadHatter]

Based on the opinion of almost every major media outlet and most NFL FO's. He fell last year in a weaker DE class. Do you know why? Because of his size, so unless he grew 2 or 3 inches and put on 15 lbs of muscle he would still be behind Graham who is rated behind Morgan. I thought the reasoning would be obvious guess that was to much to assume.

Graham's strengths and weaknesses line up almost exactly to Browns.

Your opinion is that Graham is a better player than Brown. The stats do not bear this out....just your opinion. Which, you are fully entitled to.

However, if all you have is your opinion to refute someone else's opinion, you in fact have nothing by poo.

[jramsey4]

Graham's strengths and weaknesses line up almost exactly to Browns.

Your opinion is that Graham is a better player than Brown. The stats do not bear this out....just your opinion. Which, you are fully entitled to.

However, if all you have is your opinion to refute someone else's opinion, you in fact have nothing by poo.

Really lets take a gander....

Brown

Freshman GP 13 GS 3 27 TKLs 3 sacks

Sophomore GP 13 GS 8 36 TKLs 6 sacks

Junior GP 13 GS 13 37 TKLs 13 Sacks

Graham

Freshman GP 11 3 TKLs 1 Sack

Soph GP 13 GP 5 GS 25 TKLs 8.5 sacks

Junior GS 11 46 TKLs 10 Sacks

Senior GS 13 64 TKLs 10.5 Sacks

Totals:

Brown 100 TKLs 22 Sacks

Graham 138 TKLs 30 Sacks

How bout Takles for Loss

Brown:

Fresh: 13.5

Soph: 11.5

Junior: 21.5

Total: 46.5

Graham:

Soph: 9.5

Junior: 20

Senior: 26.5

Total: 56

So my question is how exactly do the stats not back me up? The only thing he has every done more of then Graham is 3 more sacks in only 1 season. Graham had 2 in one game at the Senior Bowl.

[mick eye]

Just to help you with your math. Let's give Brown his Senior Year. Barring an injury and giving him a slump from his JR numbers. 25 tkls and 10 sks seems fair since he posted 30 tkls and 2.5 sacks in the big leagues in limited time.

30 tkls and 5 sacks to his resume.

Brown 130 tkls and 28 sacks and 4 forced fumbles.

Graham 138 tkls and 28 sacks. (hard to give him the Senior Bowl, since Brown could not have got an invite.)

This is exactly why poll groups and such love to use statistics. Even though they seem concrete and solid they are somewhat able to be flubbed to fit your argument.

[mick eye]

Point being comparing numbers when one player only gets three years with a guy with four years AND you gave him his sack numbers from the Senior Bowl is BS. Since i am not special enough to be able to EDIT my posts you will have to figure out my mistakes.