Prime Cam Newton vs Current Josh Allen

[CanadianCat]

17 hours ago, Paper Bagged Fan said:

If Cam Newton wasn't that good of a passer what is Bryce lol

In all seriousness, Cam was a Peyton / Mahomes level passer .. but we couldn't see that w/ the trash offensive line / pass catchers

We couldnt see that cause he was not that.. dude.. 

[CanadianCat]

People get all butt hurt over Cam.. 

Two things can be true.

1. Cam was the best QB we ever had as a franchise and was an elite dual threat for a time in the NFL. 

2. Cam was a below average passer of the football. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Cam wasn't on Mahomes' or Mannings' level as a pure passer. That's just not accurate. But he was on Allen's.

I would've loved to have seen Cam in his prime with a good OC. All the praise of Shula was because Cam was carrying his bum ass.

[Stingray3030]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Stats are stats but watch the games and notice how we constantly asked Cam to make the toughest throws in football. Shula's offense was all about slow developing downfield routes and our receivers largely couldn't separate which means a lot of downfield passes to covered receivers - i.e. the toughest throws in football.

When Norv came along with more of the dink and dunk routes that make up the majority of modern NFL passing game all of a sudden Cam was in the high 60s just like Norv said he would be.

You mean when we were 6-8 in Cam's starts?  Where he improved his Comp % but everything else got worse?  You are only looking at 1 stat that improved - it still did not result in wins or better overall passing stats for Cam.  Cam was 11th or lower in every category with that method - mostly lower than 20th.  

And trust me I watched just about every single game since the start of the Panthers.  The eye test for Cam's passing was much worse than his results for me.  I watched game after game where he overthrew open guys multiple times in just about every single game.  I don't care what offense it was - he never looked like a consistent, elite passer to me.  

[Stingray3030]

14 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

People get all butt hurt over Cam.. 

Two things can be true.

1. Cam was the best QB we ever had as a franchise and was an elite dual threat for a time in the NFL. 

2. Cam was a below average passer of the football. 

I will never understand why people don't get this.  Literally my point every single conversation about Cam.

[LinvilleGorge]

15 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

You mean when we were 6-8 in Cam's starts?  Where he improved his Comp % but everything else got worse?  You are only looking at 1 stat that improved - it still did not result in wins or better overall passing stats for Cam.  Cam was 11th or lower in every category with that method - mostly lower than 20th.  

And trust me I watched just about every single game since the start of the Panthers.  The eye test for Cam's passing was much worse than his results for me.  I watched game after game where he overthrew open guys multiple times in just about every single game.  I don't care what offense it was - he never looked like a consistent, elite passer to me.  

Just say you don't like Cam. It's fine. But don't quote the stats then start moving the goal posts to dismiss the ones that don't fit the narrative. 

[Stingray3030]

The best example of Allen >> Cam in passing is this season.  The cast around Allen is as close to Cam's 2015 team as Allen has had.  Mediocre WR core, TE for Allen is worse than Cam, similar running back quality.  Yet Josh Allen's passing stats are significantly better than Cam.  Comp %, Int %, Rate, QBR, AY/A - take your pick.  The reason Allen is considered for the MVP this year is that even with a depleted offense he is still putting up these kinds of numbers.  

[Stingray3030]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just say you don't like Cam. It's fine. But don't quote the stats then start moving the goal posts to dismiss the ones that don't fit the narrative. 

Quit trying to bait BS - I didn't move any goal posts.  Literally the post you quoted is telling the guy not to cherry pick stats.  I included every relevant one in my post.

And I could care less about Cam personally - I don't like running QB's.  They have never won SB's.  Pocket passers and mobile QB's are undefeated.  The greatest running QB's in the NFL modern era are all losers in the SB.  If you can't pass consistently you just don't win it.  Ask Lamar, Cam, Vick, Richardson, RGIII how they like their SB rings.....

[Navy_football]

Cam played QB like the most physically gifted player on the field - because he was. He never developed touch and anticipation because he didn't need to. He threw the ball with such velocity that he could fit it into any window, no matter the distance. Josh Allen has a similar approach but he isn't Cam. Cam is the only QB that I've ever seen that would throw a deep out late while staring down the receiver. And he did it consistently. I've never seen that before. At least not as consistently as he did it. 

And as a runner... come on. Josh is big, strong and athletic. Cam was that AND he was elusive. Imagine you're a LB, the best tackler on the team, and coming in to crush the 6'6" 260 lbs QB on a scramble, and he jukes you to the ground. Not run you over, this time. Not run by you, this time. Not jump over you, this time. Not stiff arm you, this time. But jukes you so bad that you touch earth. Cam was like a RB in the open field. Not our RBs. But RBs that make people miss. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

Quit trying to bait BS - I didn't move any goal posts.  Literally the post you quoted is telling the guy not to cherry pick stats.  I included every relevant one in my post.

And I could care less about Cam personally - I don't like running QB's.  They have never won SB's.  Pocket passers and mobile QB's are undefeated.  The greatest running QB's in the NFL modern era are all losers in the SB.  If you can't pass consistently you just don't win it.  Ask Lamar, Cam, Vick, Richardson, RGIII how they like their SB rings.....

I'm not baiting and I'm not cherry picking. He played in two entirely different offensive systems and posted two entirely different completion percentages in those systems and I tried to explain why that was and now you're just ranting. 

If Cam was a "running QB" then why did his career get cut short by a throwing shoulder injury that impacted his ability to throw but not to run? Answer me that.

[Stingray3030]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not baiting and I'm not cherry picking. He played in two entirely different offensive systems and posted two entirely different completion percentages in those systems and I tried to explain why that was and now you're just ranting. 

If Cam was a "running QB" then why did his career get cut short by a throwing shoulder injury that impacted his ability to throw but not to run? Answer me that.

How do they give trolls Mod on this website?

[Anybodyhome]

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If Cam was a "running QB" then why did his career get cut short by a throwing shoulder injury that impacted his ability to throw but not to run? Answer me that.

In Cam's own words: Newton injured his throwing shoulder in December of 2016 trying to make a tackle after he threw an interception. “I threw an interception,” Newton said. “I tried to go make the tackle, and I tried to push him out, and I extended my arm, and I messed up my AC joint.

[LinvilleGorge]

24 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

How do they give trolls Mod on this website?

How arrogant does a person have to be to view a differing opinion as trolling?

I just explained to you what you were missing and then you threw a fit because you didn't like it.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

In Cam's own words: Newton injured his throwing shoulder in December of 2016 trying to make a tackle after he threw an interception. “I threw an interception,” Newton said. “I tried to go make the tackle, and I tried to push him out, and I extended my arm, and I messed up my AC joint.

We all know how he injured his shoulder and then that TJ Watt finished it off. My point is that Cam's career was cut short because of injuries that impacted his ability as a passer while his running ability was largely unimpacted. Yet many people still want to label him a "running QB". All those people spent his entire career talking about how his career would be cut short because they figured he'd be like a RB. All the wear and tear would impact his ability to run and then he'd be done yet lo and behold his career was cut short because his throwing ability but those folks don't want to acknowledge any of that. Just like they don't want to acknowledge that he was a high 60s percentage passer in an offensive system that wasn't constantly requiring him to throw the ball downfield to receivers who couldn't separate.

Then they just start ranting and calling you a troll if you point these things out. LOL