Is a pocket presence something you can learn or a natural talent?

[Fan01]

There's enough film on Jimmy at ND and through the preseason to see some of those intangibles. I don't know for sure. You base your opinion on what you see. It doesn't take a lot of film to see if a QB consistently reads a defense and goes though his progressions or if he locks onto his first receiver, or if he's a mobile QB or a stature. Some things you can pick up right away.

That doesn't mean Jimmy will become a even average QB. It's all potential but it's potential I've never seen in Moore even though Moore's been in the league for a few years and started numerous games.

I'm not exactly comparing Brees to Moore. You're right, it's wouldn't be fair. I'm using one of the best in the NFL to highlight some things that any successful QB in the NFL must be able to do. While not many can or will do it to the level the Brees does, using him as an example makes it easier to see my point.

I'm sure Moore wants to be a better QB and he's not watching game film of Rodney Peete to see how to be a successful QB. He watching the Drew Brees and Payton Manning.

[Fan01]

as far as the last goes, Moore isn't Jake and hasn't earned the right w/ Foxy to play at such a poor level for multiple games. Fox is a lame duck and is leaving....he will do whatever it takes to look the best THIS year.

I disagree. Just by virtue of becoming a starter on a John Fox team affords you that right. If nothing else Fox makes you earn your spot.

[panthers55]

Lets clarify a few things. Pocket presence is not what keeps you from throwing interceptions, pocket presence is what allows the quarterback to elude pressure and sense the pass rush to avoid sacks. It allows him to feel the rush rather than see it so he can continue to focus down field until a receiver comes open. When he feels the rush he can throw the ball away, run with it or tuck it at least to avoid fumbling the ball.

What most people are complaining about is not pocket presence but failing to go through his progressions, difficulty reading defenses, not finding the mismatches or anticipating the defensive help over the top to avoid throwing into double or triple coverage.

Yes when a quarterback is being hurried he tends to make poorer decisions than when he has all day but throwing interceptions is really a function of not reading the defense, taking an unnecessary risk, or trying to make something happen when it just isn't there. Most of that gets corrected with experience and watching hours of film.

Some of Moore's mistakes were on him and he wasn't under great pressure. Other times it was poor playcalling. Still other times it was poor O-line play.

Tampa will play the same defense we employ and a similar one to the Giants last week. If we have a good plan and he is patient we will be fine. If not it could be a long day again.

[Fan01]

Lets clarify a few things. Pocket presence is not what keeps you from throwing interceptions, pocket presence is what allows the quarterback to elude pressure and sense the pass rush to avoid sacks. It allows him to feel the rush rather than see it so he can continue to focus down field until a receiver comes open. When he feels the rush he can throw the ball away, run with it or tuck it at least to avoid fumbling the ball.

What most people are complaining about is not pocket presence but failing to go through his progressions, difficulty reading defenses, not finding the mismatches or anticipating the defensive help over the top to avoid throwing into double or triple coverage.

Yes when a quarterback is being hurried he tends to make poorer decisions than when he has all day but throwing interceptions is really a function of not reading the defense, taking an unnecessary risk, or trying to make something happen when it just isn't there. Most of that gets corrected with experience and watching hours of film.

Some of Moore's mistakes were on him and he wasn't under great pressure. Other times it was poor playcalling. Still other times it was poor O-line play.

Tampa will play the same defense we employ and a similar one to the Giants last week. If we have a good plan and he is patient we will be fine. If not it could be a long day again.

Good post. I couldn't agree more. Can't wait for the game Sunday. Despite my criticism of Moore I am rooting for him.

[OneBadassCat]

Moore had pocket presence in those games last year. I think he just doesn't want to give up on the play. But there were times where I couldn't believe that he didn't see the pressure coming. I think it was nerves.

As for his arm I think it's good enough he just needs to learn when to throw the bullets. He's got good touch and good timing.

[mj4life]

agree with alot being posted here, pocket awareness is something most guys just have but it is something you can improve on. moore has shown that he can MANAGE A GAME when double trouble is clicking, fact is he just is not that accurate of a passer & his judgement seems to be average.

[panthers55]

Pocket presense is absolutely learned not something you are born with. Just like a CIA operative trains until he has the ability to recognize things on a conscious level that most others don't see. Quarterbacks are trained to feel the pressure, hear the footsteps of the defender, and recognize when the pocket is about to collapse. They learn to step up, slide one way or the other and generally buy some time. It nay seem instinctual but is honed over time through repetition and practice

[beastson]

Just too trigger happy to make something happen. Look at the pre-season, we didnt score once. Those INT came from being too trigger happy and to me not enough practice on redzone plays. Key word, I said enough

We had redzone problems in pre-season. Every time we got there, something always happened. Once it was penalties, once it was fumbling, and against NY it was interceptions

[panthers55]

Pocket is learned over time. You just aren't born with it. What looks like a natural talent has been learned over years of practice and filmwork to the point that it appears to be instinctual

[Varking]

There is no reason to not dominate Tampa and Moore should put up nice numbers. Tampa will not be able to stop our run so they will have to load up the box. Once they go 8 or 9 in the box he should be able to exploit mistakes and mismatches.

If he doesn't perform well against Tampa Bay he has not earned his starting gig THIS season. What you did last year doesn't matter anymore. If he doesn't play well against a really poor team then we might want to declare an open competition and let opposing defenses gameplan for 2 quarterbacks.

This is why I think Clausen should start THIS game. The defense is bad and we can pound the rock. It gives Moore time to rest and get 100% healthy. No risk. Moore could come back and start week 3 no matter what.

It sucks that if Moore plays bad people will blame it on the concussion from the week before or bad playcalling. He will get a pass, again.

I just want the best players to play but you have to show something THIS season in order to keep the starting job. Managers and coaches are supposed to play the best players, which usually just means removing the cold players and if a player gets hot, you leave them out there every chance you can. Moore was ice cold terrible against the Giants. If he doesn't leap up to above average against the Bucs.... we need to move on and give another guy a try.

I know to this forum I am just a Clausen homer but it is what it is. If a guy is helping you LOSE games, get him out of there.

[Razzy]

If we see '09 Moore he'll win the job. If Moore from the opener returns, he won't make it past week 9.

[panthers55]

There is no reason to not dominate Tampa and Moore should put up nice numbers. Tampa will not be able to stop our run so they will have to load up the box. Once they go 8 or 9 in the box he should be able to exploit mistakes and mismatches.

If he doesn't perform well against Tampa Bay he has not earned his starting gig THIS season. What you did last year doesn't matter anymore. If he doesn't play well against a really poor team then we might want to declare an open competition and let opposing defenses gameplan for 2 quarterbacks.

This is why I think Clausen should start THIS game. The defense is bad and we can pound the rock. It gives Moore time to rest and get 100% healthy. No risk. Moore could come back and start week 3 no matter what.

It sucks that if Moore plays bad people will blame it on the concussion from the week before or bad playcalling. He will get a pass, again.

I just want the best players to play but you have to show something THIS season in order to keep the starting job. Managers and coaches are supposed to play the best players, which usually just means removing the cold players and if a player gets hot, you leave them out there every chance you can. Moore was ice cold terrible against the Giants. If he doesn't leap up to above average against the Bucs.... we need to move on and give another guy a try.

I know to this forum I am just a Clausen homer but it is what it is. If a guy is helping you LOSE games, get him out of there.

First of all Tampa isn't that easy to pass or run on. Right now their defense is ranked above ours. They have traditionally been even tougher and most games we throw at least 1 or 2 interceptions as their safeties are their strongest elements.

Secondly, it is interesting that you complain about Moore getting a pass due to something as trivial as a concussion, yet you give Clausen a pass for no reason at all.

You said that you want the best players to play and that is exactly what is happening. Moore is the better player no matter how he plays this week. Clausen has done little to nothing in the preseason or in practice to suggest that he is anything but a rookie. People look at his running out of the pocket and suggest he shows good mobility and pocket awareness when in fact he is just running at the first sign of pressure afraid to hang in there and take a hit. He fails to look downfield and bails to the outlet way too early. Funny how what everyone lambasted Carr for doing in 2007 is somehow now a virtue when Clausen does it.

Now lets wait for the other Clausen homers to all chime in with how great his 35 passer rating was so great in the preseason. Lets all get so excited about his 4 yards per attempt average when we ran for a better average than that.

[mj4life]

moore should be light years ahead of clausen since he has spent 4 years not only in the pros but in the same system for the most part. the gap between the two will only get smaller unless he starts to play better

[bleys]

people and their "should be's".. lol