The pass in the dirt

[DirtyMagic97]

Oh, I definitely would've taken Peyton over Jimmy. He was the number one overall pick for a reason. But, we didn't have a number one pick overall. We had a 2nd round pick. Jimmy fell to us, and we grabbed him up. I would have too, given the situation we were put in.

But, I will say this, Jimmy's stock didn't fall because of what happened at ND. It was because his toe injury (which is still lingering) and his really arrogant attitude.

This is more the point I was getting to. It seems to be the theme of this thread. Jimmy threw other players under the bus at ND. He complained when things weren't best for him. He is more self-interested than a winner. Maybe the NFL will change him, but I don't see it happening.

[Ruff]

This is more the point I was getting to. It seems to be the theme of this thread. Jimmy threw other players under the bus at ND. He complained when things weren't best for him. He is more self-interested than a winner. Maybe the NFL will change him, but I don't see it happening.

TO is arguably the most arrogant player in the NFL, and he's a Hall of Famer. I think just because you have a horrible attitude, it doesn't mean that you won't succeed. But, I do think that it means that you will clash with the other egos on the team. And let's face it, Steve Smith's ego is massive.

[HPPantherzfan]

Steve Smith is a captain on the team. He is a leader chosen by the players. He has their respect and has proven himself over the years.

Or it could be there are no other veterans on the team to vote for? I think Smith has earned it, don't get me wrong, but he is no teacher and really isn't someone, personality wise, we want our young people looking up to.

I agree though, I don't think the passes were intentional, the cold shoulder after ever play probably was though!

The biggest problem this year with fans and players alike is simple, everyone is resistant to change...it’s a proven fact people hate it! This is a season of change for the Panthers. We have ushered in young unheard of players and Smith isn't surrounded by those people that made him feel comfortable. Perhaps making him feel a little out of place? I mean the way he talked about the young rookie WR’s during training camp was a little confusing to me. Instead of stepping up and being a real leader, he pushed people away and pretty much demanded the kiss his arse or they got no respect?! Same goes for us fans, we don't see those same people making plays that made us feel comfortable. So you resist any type of change and deem it as all bad. Fact of the matter is, one day Smith will be gone; More than likely Jimmy and the other young WR's will be what brings us to the stadium on Sundays.

We need to face the facts, no matter what we do right now; start Jimmy, start Moore, bring in so and so, we are just a YOUNG team in soooo many areas that we are going to have a rough ride regardless. Best thing to do is accept the change, embrace it, support it and feel good about improvement and not bad about a loss!

Changing of the Guard has to take place eventually and I think the struggle, on offense, is on right now!

[DirtyMagic97]

TO is arguably the most arrogant player in the NFL, and he's a Hall of Famer. I think just because you have a horrible attitude, it doesn't mean that you won't succeed. But, I do think that it means that you will clash with the other egos on the team. And let's face it, Steve Smith's ego is massive.

Oh, certainly. I made that point a few pages ago. I don't think arrogance or "fire" is conducive to the QB position when you're on the field. But the WR position is saturated with talented divas. And certainly they can still perform. I just personally don't want an arrogant rookie QB. But that's just my opinion.

[Fiz]

50 bucks this ends up on PFT

[Wither]

Or it could be there are no other veterans on the team to vote for? I think Smith has earned it, don't get me wrong, but he is no teacher and really isn't someone, personality wise, we want our young people looking up to.

On the field he is a pretty good teacher and someone that can be looked up to.

[Wither]

50 bucks this ends up on PFT

Florio will talk about it on TV.

[CLTPanther]

And a CO story tomorrow

[Fiz]

who wants to start a twitter rumor

[HPPantherzfan]

On the field he is a pretty good teacher and someone that can be looked up to.

Really? In the past I agree this year not so much.

[Neylus]

I disagree. Clausen throwing a bad pass only makes Clausen look bad. My take on it was the exact opposite. I think Jimmy tried to force a "make-up" pass to Smitty on that play and made a nervous pass (god forbid it get intercepted).

[panthers55]

Or it could be there are no other veterans on the team to vote for? I think Smith has earned it, don't get me wrong, but he is no teacher and really isn't someone, personality wise, we want our young people looking up to.

I agree though, I don't think the passes were intentional, the cold shoulder after ever play probably was though!

The biggest problem this year with fans and players alike is simple, everyone is resistant to change...it’s a proven fact people hate it! This is a season of change for the Panthers. We have ushered in young unheard of players and Smith isn't surrounded by those people that made him feel comfortable. Perhaps making him feel a little out of place? I mean the way he talked about the young rookie WR’s during training camp was a little confusing to me. Instead of stepping up and being a real leader, he pushed people away and pretty much demanded the kiss his arse or they got no respect?! Same goes for us fans, we don't see those same people making plays that made us feel comfortable. So you resist any type of change and deem it as all bad. Fact of the matter is, one day Smith will be gone; More than likely Jimmy and the other young WR's will be what brings us to the stadium on Sundays.

We need to face the facts, no matter what we do right now; start Jimmy, start Moore, bring in so and so, we are just a YOUNG team in soooo many areas that we are going to have a rough ride regardless. Best thing to do is accept the change, embrace it, support it and feel good about improvement and not bad about a loss!

Changing of the Guard has to take place eventually and I think the struggle, on offense, is on right now!

The changes have already been made. The issue is how does a rookie quarterback get the respect of the entrenched players on the team who are under contract like Smith for almost as long as Clausen is at this point.

It surely isn't giving him the cold shoulder or acting like you know more than he does. It surely isn't not throwing him the ball to show him who the boss is. It surely isn't ignoring him.

Maybe if you are Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and have proven yourself on the field then you get to be a prima donna or demand respect. So far Clausen has done nothing to warrant respect. The truth is that Smith was right and had every right to say what he did. he is one of the 2 captains on the offense.

This isn't about change in general or inevitability of change. This is about the quarterback of a losing team who hasn't played well personally, taking the advice of a player who has been there and done that and was right in what he was saying.

You apologists realy need to start seeing things from a reality base here. It is getting ridiculous. Lets keep in mind that there is another option on the bench besides Clausen who has a much better relationship with Smith and the team right now. Stunts like that could land Clausen on the pines.

[HPPantherzfan]

The changes have already been made. The issue is how does a rookie quarterback get the respect of the entrenched players on the team who are under contract like Smith for almost as long as Clausen is at this point.

It surely isn't giving him the cold shoulder or acting like you know more than he does. It surely isn't not throwing him the ball to show him who the boss is. It surely isn't ignoring him.

Maybe if you are Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and have proven yourself on the field then you get to be a prima donna or demand respect. So far Clausen has done nothing to warrant respect. The truth is that Smith was right and had every right to say what he did. he is one of the 2 captains on the offense.

This isn't about change in general or inevitability of change. This is about the quarterback of a losing team who hasn't played well personally, taking the advice of a player who has been there and done that and was right in what he was saying.

You apologists realy need to start seeing things from a reality base here. It is getting ridiculous. Lets keep in mind that there is another option on the bench besides Clausen who has a much better relationship with Smith and the team right now. Stunts like that could land Clausen on the pines.

First off, I'm not apologizing for anything! If anything I think when Steve run his mouth to Jimmy on the sidelines in his first EVER game Jimmy should have jumped up and punched him in the mouth...PERIOD! And I would not be apologizing for that either.

I'm a realist and facing facts...the reason most of you didn't want Jake gone, don't want Fox fired, didn't want to see Moore benched is because you are comfortable. Any type of change just throws you out of wack, especially the older you get. So who is the apologist? Should I go back and pull up your Matt Moore threads? How about your Jake threads?

Yes Jimmy is a QB of a losing team, two of those loses thanks to HORRIBLE PLAY for a veteran QB!

Wanna know the difference so far, Jimmy put us in a position to win...Matt lost two games for us. NOT EVEN YOU can argue that fact.

[panthers55]

First off, I'm not apologizing for anything! If anything I think when Steve run his mouth to Jimmy on the sidelines in his first EVER game Jimmy should have jumped up and punched him in the mouth...PERIOD! And I would not be apologizing for that either.

I'm a realist and facing facts...the reason most of you didn't want Jake gone, don't want Fox fired, didn't want to see Moore benched is because you are comfortable. Any type of change just throws you out of wack, especially the older you get. So who is the apologist? Should I go back and pull up your Matt Moore threads? How about your Jake threads?

Yes Jimmy is a QB of a losing team, two of those loses thanks to HORRIBLE PLAY for a veteran QB!

Wanna know the difference so far, Jimmy put us in a position to win...Matt lost two games for us. NOT EVEN YOU can argue that fact.

Seriously?? Clausen should have punched Smith in the mouth? That would make Clausen the NFL version of a suicide bomber. He would been suspended off the team after getting his butt stomped as well.

If that is your version of being a realist, I wonder in what kind of reality you exist.

Jimy is just showing why teams passed up on him.