Jaws: "I wouldn't give up on Jimmy"

[bleys]

well, Goodson and a healthy Stewart sparked it. Stewart was a beast once he got healthy.

I don't argue that Fox/Davidson didn't help out much.....but they have never helped much w/ anyone. I guess I just accept that as it has really been a consistant thing and not unique to this season.

it is definitely unique when you are starting a rookie QB.. add in that our OLine was suspect and they kept calling plays that took time to develop.. but you are right in some sense of the word, it wasn't unique before when we at least had a vet in Jake, but even he had issues from time to time, where Fox didn't adapt the play calling to what the defense was giving him..

unique or not, you have to adapt play calling.. it didn't work with a vet behind center, but it was much better than when we had a rookie QB.. there is no way to defend the play calling in this regard..

btw, Goodson was the spark.. Yes, Stewart carried that spark afterwards, but Goodson put up 2 100 yard games by himself, where no one did that before at that point of the season..

where DWill and Stewart failed as a committee, Goodson deserves respect for doing so by himself..

[Mr. Scot]

Why would I care what Rivera says, especially right now, before he's even had one day in training camp or one pre-season game? He's a coach, he's not going to say anything BUT positive things about our personnel right now. Come on man! You know better.

I can take a look at our offensive players just like anyone else, and see without a shadow of a doubt that compared to the rest of the NFL, right now we're average and below on offense.

It doesn't take a genius to see that. And it's a known fact that you can't have an attacking, aggressive offense in the NFL if you're last on offense.

Teams like Indy, Patriots, Saints....those are attacking style aggressive offenses. Our offensive personnel, as a whole are like the equivalent of their back-ups. And really, that's not much of an exaggeration.

Why should you care what Rivera thinks? :skep:

Well, he's kind of the head coach. His opinion matters a little more than yours (or mine, or anyone else's).

And for the record, he's not pulling these assessments out of his rectum. He broke down the film from last season before he even had the job (it was part of his interview prep). And if you've caught his recent media bits, his opinions of the team in its current state have not all been sunshine and rainbows.

[PantherFanForLife]

simply not true.

His OL isn't average. Nothing average about an OL with Gross, Wharton, Kalil, and Otah starting.

His backfield isn't average.

You can call this recieving options average.

If the QB could reach the level of those guys.....that would be incredible. That would not be an average(or below) offense though if the QB reached where everyone else was.

Dude our Oline was complete poo last year. And yes it would be an average offense compared to other NFL teams. Seriously! I know you love your players and as fans we think we are better than anyone else. But objectively, as a whole that group even at its best isn't anything brag-worthy.

We don't compare to offensive teams that can actually play aggressive, offensive football.

[PantherFanForLife]

Why should you care what Rivera thinks? :skep:

Well, he's kind of the head coach. His opinion matters a little more than yours (or mine, or anyone else's).

And for the record, he's not pulling these assessments out of his rectum. He broke down the film from last season before he even had the job (it was part of his interview prep). And if you've caught his recent media bits, his opinions of the team in its current state have not all been sunshine and rainbows.

Actually, in reality it really doesn't. His "opinion" is 80% politically correct and 20% truth every time he gets on that podium just like any other coach.

Seriously, stop pointing to what a coach says in public and press conferences and say look "there's evidence" about his philosophy! That's what he really believes.

Rule #1: You never bad mouth your players in front of the media.

You will never get an honest assessment of what a coach thinks about a team in a press conference. The only guys that ever hear what he really thinks are his other assistant coaches, the GM and his owner...IN PRIVATE MEETINGS!

[csx]

Why should you care what Rivera thinks? :skep:

Well, he's kind of the head coach. His opinion matters a little more than yours (or mine, or anyone else's).

Because there is nothing in the history of coach speak (any coach) to think he's giving anything but a generic statement to the press. He's being optimistic and doing his PR best. What any coach says this time of year means little.

[mav1234]

Dude our Oline was complete poo last year. And yes it would be an average offense compared to other NFL teams. Seriously! I know you love your players and as fans we think we are better than anyone else. But objectively, as a whole that group even at its best isn't anything brag-worthy.

We don't compare to offensive teams that can actually play aggressive, offensive football.

We were ravaged by injuries last year and a loss of depth, and it still came together near the mid-end of the season to give us a decent run game at least.

OL is still one of this team's strengths when healthy. It needs depth, just like every position.

This year we sent two to the probowl. Otah has the capacity to go if he is healthy. Wharton is good when he's in there. We need some depth and slight upgrades but overall it's a great line when healthy imo. Which is going to be the key next year...

[CRA]

Dude our Oline was complete poo last year. And yes it would be an average offense compared to other NFL teams. Seriously! I know you love your players and as fans we think we are better than anyone else. But objectively, as a whole that group even at its best isn't anything brag-worthy.

We don't compare to offensive teams that can actually play aggressive, offensive football.

that's great and all....

but you are talking about 2011. When healthy, you can't call an OL that starts Gross, Wharton, Kalil and Otah average.

QB aside, I wouldn't call a healthy team on offense average compared to other NFC teams. Carolina would have a better OL and backfield than the overwhelming majority of NFC teams. The WR corp may be average.....but factor in the OL/RB scenario......it simply isn't as talented depleted as you paint.

QB is the glaring issue....not what is around him. Plus, Rivera will be about to dabble in FA to further improve a decent cast around a QB

[PantherFanForLife]

that's great and all....

but you are talking about 2011. When healthy, you can't call an OL that starts Gross, Wharton, Kalil and Otah average.

QB aside, I wouldn't call a healthy team on offense average compared to other NFC teams. Carolina would have a better OL and backfield than the overwhelming majority of NFC teams. The WR corp may be average.....but factor in the OL/RB scenario......it simply isn't as talented depleted as you paint.

QB is the glaring issue....not what is around him. Plus, Rivera will be about to dabble in FA to further improve a decent cast around a QB

Yes I do because that O-line will stay healthy for about 2 games, and our depth chart is too weak to prevent us from having the same problems we did this year.

That's why I said....we needed to seek out those players, and as of right now, what this team appears to be doing and what Rivera is saying are two opposite things. Like I said, things are still early, but right now Rivera is looking for answers on our roster. And I don't believe they are there.

And better than who exactly? Green Bay? Eagles? Saints? Atlanta? Giants? Dallas? Heck how about even Bucs?

Yeah healthy we're right there with Arizona, Vikings, Seattle and Washington. We are in that group with our personnel right now. And that's just the NFC.

[MadHatter]

Helps to define terms.

Every team wants "ball control" because nobody wants to fumble. But when you talk about a "ball control offense" you're generally referring to a team that plays it safe and doesn't take many chances (See: Fox, John).

I think "ball control" will be important to Rivera, but I seriously doubt he'll have the team running a "ball control offense".

I understand what you are saying.

However, I view a "ball control" offense is one that mythodically moves the ball down the field utilizing the run game and the passing game (short, medium, and long passes). That is NOT what Fox ran.

And when done correctly, it is a beautiful thing. You keep the opposign teams defense on the field (wearing them down) and their offense on the sidelines (giving them fewer posessions and making them take more chances).

Ball control is not a bad thing. It is the recipe for a winning team.

[MadHatter]

Yes I do because that O-line will stay healthy for about 2 games, and our depth chart is too weak to prevent us from having the same problems we did this year.

That's why I said....we needed to seek out those players, and as of right now, what this team appears to be doing and what Rivera is saying are two opposite things.

Like I said, things are still early, but right now Rivera is looking for answers on our roster. And I don't believe they are there.

Glad to know that you can see the future. Let me know what numbers are the winning powerball picks...I could use some additional cash.

[bleys]

I feel very confident that if we find a QB, and that was the only position we could fill, that we could beat the Falcons..

we could have last year, and we could this year..

acquire Peterson in the draft and DT's through FA and there's no question we are a playoff team (depending on the time we gel together under a new system)..

our team isn't in shambles by any means..

[CRA]

Yes I do because that O-line will stay healthy for about 2 games, and our depth chart is too weak to prevent us from having the same problems we did this year.

That's why I said....we needed to seek out those players, and as of right now, what this team appears to be doing and what Rivera is saying are two opposite things. Like I said, things are still early, but right now Rivera is looking for answers on our roster. And I don't believe they are there.

And better than who exactly? Green Bay? Eagles? Saints? Atlanta? Giants? Dallas? Heck how about even Bucs?

Yeah healthy we're right there with Arizona, Vikings, Seattle and Washington. We are in that group with our personnel right now. And that's just the NFC.

you can't say the OL is below average b/c you are going to assume no one stays healthy. When healthy, the OL is pretty dang good. The fact the depth was thrust into playing time this past year actually is a good thing.

better than who? doesn't that mean I get to disregard the starters and evaluate the depth as well? When healthy, QB excluded, we have much more talent than AZ, Seattle, Wash.

[PantherFanForLife]

Glad to know that you can see the future. Let me know what numbers are the winning powerball picks...I could use some additional cash.

You don't have to see the future. Jimmy Clausen will not turn into Tom Brady by 2011. LaFell will not be Larry Fitzgerald in his prime in 2011. Otah will not be Otah in his prime in 2011. Smith will not be Smith in his prime in 2011.

It's common sense.

And I will make a bet with anyone, if we DON'T make some serious acquisitions on offense in the off-season this year, then ball control offense is what you will have next year!

[CRA]

I feel very confident that if we find a QB, and that was the only position we could fill, that we could beat the Falcons..

we could have last year, and we could this year..

acquire Peterson in the draft and DT's through FA and there's no question we are a playoff team (depending on the time we gel together under a new system)..

our team isn't in shambles by any means..

almost beat the Saints getting very little from a rookie QB as well....