Monday practice tweets

[CRA]

15 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

It’s why the more I watched Bryce in college and the hype started falling off of him, you’re able to see he really just distributed the ball to insane playmakers.  He didn’t wow you with throws, but he could with scrambles and extending plays -

I was all in on the Bryce move at first.  They claimed they drafted a high IQ PG.  Not my preference but okay.   But it became evident before a preseason snap was taken....Carolina didn't know what a high IQ PG type does and what they had to so here.  Just retread Frank and asking Bryce to be a "traditional QB" and adding some very traditional band aid types. 

We didn't have the scheme or playmakers for that type QB to have success.  Which was the 2023 disaster.  

I think 2024 in large was just a couple random games here and there.   I mean, play anyone enough at some point there will be some law of averages good that will eventually mix in.  We still aren't built for what we drafted in BY. 

Hunter Renfrow, Tmac, and Horn are actually are the first players I have though sort of aligned with the types you need around BY.  But Canales doesn't really fit that.  Or at least his coaching tree/history is not about that type play.  But I like Dave.  I just don't think he is creative enough and I think he sort of said that before about how he goes about things.   I still think Dave's ideal QB is more Jake Delhomme than BY.   

[LinvilleGorge]

I was loudly against Bryce pre-draft due to physical talent and stylistic concerns. Now I'm just hoping for the best. I'm always happy to be wrong of it works out for the best for the team.

[Proudiddy]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I was loudly against Bryce pre-draft due to physical talent and stylistic concerns. Now I'm just hoping for the best. I'm always happy to be wrong of it works out for the best for the team.

Same.

[frankw]

The QB comparisons have long been a beaten horse. Guys were making outrageous and baffling comparisons before we drafted him putting him in conversations with the greatest athletes of any generation. The hype was to me a huge bubble just waiting to burst. If Bryce is going to take the necessary steps to move on to the next level he is going to have to establish a consistent and accurate deep ball. There is no becoming a franchise QB in this league without that. And if it doesn't happen then defenses are just going to play him the way they have and he will eventually hit a wall again. Because everything is on tape. But with the receivers and the backfield we have in place this offense is more than adequate enough for him to bring it to fruition and at least become a top 15 QB. Hopefully he does.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

They claimed they drafted a high IQ PG.  

Ive watched NFL football for 45 years and I have never heard of a qb described as that.  It was a made up term to try and sell him to us (along with the steph curry analogy) which was cringe worthy at best.

 

Its neither here nor there as I would love to be wrong about bryce but how in the holy fug can someone watch stroud play, watch him work out and throw and then say "nah, I am going with this dude"

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yeah, and the one thing both Russ and Baker have without a doubt is arm strength and the ability to throw the ball deep.  It’s why the more I watched Bryce in college and the hype started falling off of him, you’re able to see he really just distributed the ball to insane playmakers.  He didn’t wow you with throws, but he could with scrambles and extending plays - but in the NFL, if you can’t keep a defense honest with deep passes, it’s like trying to bucket water out of a sinking ship.  It’s why I still am very skeptical of the end of season stretch he had last year.  Yeah, there were some impressive statistics in there, but unless he learns how to consistently connect on the deep game, he will regress back to the mean.

But I will say - Bryce, to me, was always a better comp to Drew Brees.  He is just a more mobile version.  And Drew had enough of an arm to keep a defense honest, but he was by no means a gunslinger or renowned for his arm talent.  I think arm strength-wise, he and Bryce are very similar - the difference is, Drew’s accuracy in the deep ball.  Even if you can only manage 30-40 yard chunks occasionally, it maximizing the efficiency of  them.  And I will say, when Brees really seemed to hit another level was when they added a guy like Colston - a big possession receiver he could throw it up to.  And we just took Tet…  so again, hoping for the best.

I believe that deep passes fall under the WR more than the QB.  Most QBs can loft it 30-40 yards (even the ones with lesser arms).  Sure you have the Allen, and Mahomes with absolute cannons, but they show it off more with off balance passes than they do throwing 50-60 yard bombs.  Tua is the classic example who magically got a deep ball once Hill and Waddle got paired together.  You mentioning Brees really hitting another level with a big bodied WR who can go up and get jump balls helps confirm my belief.  I feel like Canales has a similar belief since he drafted big bodied WRs in back to back drafts.  His offense likes to run and chunk the ball and the best way to get better at "chunking" the ball is to have some big outside WRs that can go up and get it.  DK in Seattle, Evans in Tampa were both staples in his offense. 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

Same.

thats the corner we all have painted ourselves into.  Having to start over at qb just resets the crap clock unless you get a Stroud (goddamnit) or Daniels level player.  

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

thats the corner we all have painted ourselves into.  Having to start over at qb just resets the crap clock unless you get a Stroud (goddamnit) or Daniels level player.  

The Stroud pill is still a bitter one to swallow.  I'd be lying if I don't think in the back of my mind what Stroud could be doing with these weapons we are acquiring.  I know it would look totally different because we could have a different staff and draft positioning if he was our QB, but still...

[CRA]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Ive watched NFL football for 45 years and I have never heard of a qb described as that.  It was a made up term to try and sell him to us (along with the steph curry analogy) which was cringe worthy at best.

 

Its neither here nor there as I would love to be wrong about bryce but how in the holy fug can someone watch stroud play, watch him work out and throw and then say "nah, I am going with this dude"

I think it was merely a poorly run org that hate taken tons of heat taking the consensus saftest pick/highest floor.  And I think it was all Tepper/Fitterer.  Safe excitement.  But they didn't realize it's only safe if you are catering to what BY does well....and they had just hired Frank Reich lol. 

[frankw]

Stroud was a simple layup on a lowered hoop. Just walk up and toss it in and go to work. Definition of simplicity. Still failed. Tepper's in a nutshell.

The problem with Bryce is even if he establishes himself to be a middle of the pack QB you have to consider if the contract will be worth it looking at other teams that have made similar decisions and regretted it like the Giants with Daniel Jones for example. The worst thing we could do is ink him to a huge contract extension for showing just enough improvement for the front office to justify.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I believe that deep passes fall under the WR more than the QB.  Most QBs can loft it 30-40 yards (even the ones with lesser arms).  Sure you have the Allen, and Mahomes with absolute cannons, but they show it off more with off balance passes than they do throwing 50-60 yard bombs.  Tua is the classic example who magically got a deep ball once Hill and Waddle got paired together.  You mentioning Brees really hitting another level with a big bodied WR who can go up and get jump balls helps confirm my belief.  I feel like Canales has a similar belief since he drafted big bodied WRs in back to back drafts.  His offense likes to run and chunk the ball and the best way to get better at "chunking" the ball is to have some big outside WRs that can go up and get it.  DK in Seattle, Evans in Tampa were both staples in his offense. 

I still see two sides to that coin.  Jake Delhomme and Teddy Bridgewater.   Some QBs are looking for that play, some aren't.  It's DNA.  Downfield gamblers are just a thing.  So are check-down QBs.  You make both do the opposite of their DNA.  But both remain distinctly different types of QB that are what they are.  And there of course is a middle ground to all that too.  

BY clearly is never going to look at the pass game the way Russell Wilson does.  And heck some coaches need a gunslinger.  John Fox for example.  John Fox frankly needed to be paired w/ a QB that probably was making a lot of throws he never wanted took in the first place...because his natural tendency as a coach was probably to be too safe/conservative.  

[Proudiddy]

28 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I believe that deep passes fall under the WR more than the QB.  Most QBs can loft it 30-40 yards (even the ones with lesser arms).  Sure you have the Allen, and Mahomes with absolute cannons, but they show it off more with off balance passes than they do throwing 50-60 yard bombs.  Tua is the classic example who magically got a deep ball once Hill and Waddle got paired together.  You mentioning Brees really hitting another level with a big bodied WR who can go up and get jump balls helps confirm my belief.  I feel like Canales has a similar belief since he drafted big bodied WRs in back to back drafts.  His offense likes to run and chunk the ball and the best way to get better at "chunking" the ball is to have some big outside WRs that can go up and get it.  DK in Seattle, Evans in Tampa were both staples in his offense. 

The receivers definitely play a role in it, but Bryce’s deep passes until that end of season stretch last year couldn’t have been caught by Megatron, and I don’t mean Calvin Johnson.  I recall so many of his deep attempts not even being close, so the receiver didn’t even have a chance.  Many landing 5-10 yards out of bounds.  So it’s a balance.  Yes, guys like Colston helped Brees hit that next level, but Brees looked a helluva lot more competent and accurate even before that period of his career.  He got the contract in NO for a reason.  The trajectory Bryce was on until the end of last season, he was quickly on his way to being out of the league by the end of his rookie contract.  So, that is also why I’m still skeptical about him maintaining or building on that stretch last season.  If you don’t have a big arm, you have to be accurate at every level of the field, and Bryce, to this point has not been consistently.  So, I brought up the Colston example to allow my repressed optimist out for some sun, but when I look at Brees resume, even just in San Diego, compared to Bryce’s first two years…  let’s just say, the organization pushing the hype train about them being all in on BY because the last 7 games of last season is who he is, has been, and will be, is being awfully generous.  I truly hope he has turned a corner and the new weapons will get him there, but I am not confident in that based off the greater sample of work he’s given us.

In reality, my fear is, we are just continuing to spin our wheels and will have to find another rookie QB in the next two drafts and hope that one hits.  It’s why I was adamant about drafting guys like Hooker, Milton, or Sanders to hedge our bet on BY.

But again, I’m hoping for the best.

[ForJimmy]

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

I still see two sides to that coin.  Jake Delhomme and Teddy Bridgewater.   Some QBs are looking for that play, some aren't.  It's DNA.  Downfield gamblers are just a thing.  So are check-down QBs.  You make both do the opposite of their DNA.  But both remain distinctly different types of QB that are what they are.  And there of course is a middle ground to all that too.  

BY clearly is never going to look at the pass game the way Russell Wilson does.  And heck some coaches need a gunslinger.  John Fox for example.  John Fox frankly needed to be paired w/ a QB that probably was making a lot of throws he never wanted took in the first place...because his natural tendency as a coach was probably to be too safe/conservative.  

I can see where you are coming from, but the real good QBs are more cerebral.  They just go through progressions based on the plays called.  Sure some will force the deep pass when they probably shouldn't and the great WRs will bail them out.  To me if a QB is good they are going through the reads and if the deep shot makes the most since with a safety gambling in the box then you take it, if they are leaving the check down wide open, then you take it.  Mahomes for example is labeled a deep shot QB, but she loves the check downs.  He has mastered taking what the defense gives him.  A lot of the highlight plays are when they are needing a comeback and he is forced to throw these deeper passes.  It also depends on the offense they are in West Coast QBs aren't going to force deep passes as much by design. 

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

The receivers definitely play a role in it, but Bryce’s deep passes until that end of season stretch last year couldn’t have been caught by Megatron, and I don’t mean Calvin Johnson.  I recall so many of his deep attempts not even being close, so the receiver didn’t even have a chance.  Many landing 5-10 yards out of bounds.  So it’s a balance.  Yes, guys like Colston helped Brees hit that next level, but Brees looked a helluva lot more competent and accurate even before that period of his career.  He got the contract in NO for a reason.  The trajectory Bryce was on until the end of last season, he was quickly on his way to being out of the league by the end of his rookie contract.  So, that is also why I’m still skeptical about him maintaining or building on that stretch last season.  If you don’t have a big arm, you have to be accurate at every level of the field, and Bryce, to this point has not been consistently.  So, I brought up the Colston example to allow my repressed optimist out for some sun, but when I look at Brees resume, even just in San Diego, compared to Bryce’s first two years…  let’s just say, the organization pushing the hype train about them being all in on BY because the last 7 games of last season is who he is, has been, and will be, is being awfully generous.  I truly hope he has turned a corner and the new weapons will get him there, but I am not confident in that based off the greater sample of work he’s given us.

In reality, my fear is, we are just continuing to spin our wheels and will have to find another rookie QB in the next two drafts and hope that one hits.  It’s why I was adamant about drafting guys like Hooker, Milton, or Sanders to hedge our bet on BY.

But again, I’m hoping for the best.

I think at the end of the year we saw Bryce getting comfortable in DC's offense and his weapons were getting open at a decent rate.  Suddenly his deep ball looks decent.  His rookie year appeared to have ruined some of his confidence and with that went mechanics and decision making.  I personally feel like the no deep ball talk was put to rest as he was literally completing deep passes.  PFF ranked him as one of the better deep ball passers in the later half of the season.  Again this shows me that the scheme and the weapons play a major factor in the deep ball.  To be clear, I'm not saying he has a cannon or that he will be our franchise QB.  I'm simply saying he has all the tools to succeed in this offense.  It's more like a no excuses and I expect a certain level of production from our offense.  If that doesn't happen then we will have some big decisions to make this offseason.