Derrick Brown

[electro's horse]

2 hours ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Very true. Hurney was awful. He was just as bad as Fitterer, he just had such an unwarranted long tenure that people just remember his first round "home runs." Guess who else has a stellar first round history? Me. And I'm an idiot.

Hurneys drafts didn’t get insane until after he won the power struggle with Fox and it became less a collaborative approach. 

he was involved in the 2001 panthers draft, to what extent we don’t know. 2002 through 2008 were all very good drafts top to bottom. Obviously some top line panther players, but tons of guys that hung around the league forever, and a bunch of contributors at all rounds. Even what is considered a “bad” draft, the 2005 one, still netted Davis, Geoff hangartner, and Evan Mathis who’d eventually do a bunch of horse steroids and become one of the best tackles in the league. 2006 is maybe the best draft in panthers history. 2008 had good players all over the place, lots of guys who got second and third contracts in the nfl  

it wasn’t until after Fox was pushed aside after 2008 that things really went south. They traded up for Everette brown (Fox didn’t want him) and it just took years to recover from that. Hurney could also never figure out the defensive line; he just didn’t have an eye for that talent. He drafted Charles Johnson and Greg Hardy but couldn’t get anyone in the middle and that’s what eventually killed him…..before he came back. 

the overpaying their own players (James Anderson the most egregious example of this) was partly because Richardson had to win the team back over after the disastrous 2010 and he was liked. It was also part of how Richardson wanted the team run; they’re never going to be big market but they’ll take care of their own  

I’ve always said that hurney never got over the high of his early career where he just couldn’t miss and he started taking a lot more chances. He always thought he was the smartest guy in the room and you really saw that with how he tried to address the defensive tackle situation. He was going to get all these low experience college guys and change their position and he was gonna draft them two rounds early but it didn’t matter because he’d be proven right in the end. He was best when Fox was there to remind him that hey we actually need football players and it just projects. Like if you want to cry look at offensive players drafted two years before cam newton to 2012. Just get ONE fuging starter in there and cams entire career would have been different. 

But he could spot physical talent. Jeremy chinn was probably the most Hurney of Hurney picks, and I’ll never understand how Rhule fuged that up so bad. Chinn looked like a bigger Ed reed his rookie season and then was ruined. 

in conclusion, I think Hurney was a good drafter who hit a very bad stretch during a period of turmoil within the franchise that was partly his fault, partly the owners, and partly John fox’s. He had a ton of wild ideas that worked out, from players developing to hiring coaches specifically for the offense (chudzinksi) to trade moves etc.

but he was his own worst enemy and probably shouldn’t have been hired again. He was an expert at playing office politics and intentionally shied away from coaches that could threaten him, which is one of the reasons Rivera was hired. 

id take hurney back in a second. 

[electro's horse]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, he has all the talent in the world but it's time to start translating that into wins. This is year six and he's barely over .500 as a starter with zero playoff wins. He's past the point of his career where you can learn on stats and well into the portion of his career where success is determined by wins and post season success.

I mean they’ve lost both of their offensive tackles for the year. I agree they feel like they should be better but at this point they’re kinda fuged. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

I mean they’ve lost both of their offensive tackles for the year. I agree they feel like they should be better but at this point they’re kinda fuged. 

It's a good year to have a good team that wasn't necessarily expected to be a contender. There's not a team in the league that strikes fear in the hearts of opponents. Every team seems very glazed and very bearable hence why no one even made it to 5-0.

[electro's horse]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's a good year to have a good team that wasn't necessarily expected to be a contender. There's not a team in the league that strikes fear in the hearts of opponents. Every team seems very glazed and very bearable hence why no one even made it to 5-0.

Lions baby 

[TN05]

18 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Hurneys drafts didn’t get insane until after he won the power struggle with Fox and it became less a collaborative approach. 

he was involved in the 2001 panthers draft, to what extent we don’t know. 2002 through 2008 were all very good drafts top to bottom. Obviously some top line panther players, but tons of guys that hung around the league forever, and a bunch of contributors at all rounds. Even what is considered a “bad” draft, the 2005 one, still netted Davis, Geoff hangartner, and Evan Mathis who’d eventually do a bunch of horse steroids and become one of the best tackles in the league. 2006 is maybe the best draft in panthers history. 2008 had good players all over the place, lots of guys who got second and third contracts in the nfl  

it wasn’t until after Fox was pushed aside after 2008 that things really went south. They traded up for Everette brown (Fox didn’t want him) and it just took years to recover from that. Hurney could also never figure out the defensive line; he just didn’t have an eye for that talent. He drafted Charles Johnson and Greg Hardy but couldn’t get anyone in the middle and that’s what eventually killed him…..before he came back. 

the overpaying their own players (James Anderson the most egregious example of this) was partly because Richardson had to win the team back over after the disastrous 2010 and he was liked. It was also part of how Richardson wanted the team run; they’re never going to be big market but they’ll take care of their own  

I’ve always said that hurney never got over the high of his early career where he just couldn’t miss and he started taking a lot more chances. He always thought he was the smartest guy in the room and you really saw that with how he tried to address the defensive tackle situation. He was going to get all these low experience college guys and change their position and he was gonna draft them two rounds early but it didn’t matter because he’d be proven right in the end. He was best when Fox was there to remind him that hey we actually need football players and it just projects. Like if you want to cry look at offensive players drafted two years before cam newton to 2012. Just get ONE fuging starter in there and cams entire career would have been different. 

But he could spot physical talent. Jeremy chinn was probably the most Hurney of Hurney picks, and I’ll never understand how Rhule fuged that up so bad. Chinn looked like a bigger Ed reed his rookie season and then was ruined. 

in conclusion, I think Hurney was a good drafter who hit a very bad stretch during a period of turmoil within the franchise that was partly his fault, partly the owners, and partly John fox’s. He had a ton of wild ideas that worked out, from players developing to hiring coaches specifically for the offense (chudzinksi) to trade moves etc.

but he was his own worst enemy and probably shouldn’t have been hired again. He was an expert at playing office politics and intentionally shied away from coaches that could threaten him, which is one of the reasons Rivera was hired. 

id take hurney back in a second. 

This is a really good way to look at it. Dude could spot the best first-round pick every time. Even his one bust (Jeff Otah) was actually a fantastic player that just had a terrible injury record after 2008. Otah was a phenomenal rookie.

I think he was most weak in free agency. Rarely made big movies and when he did, they rarely panned out (aside from what, Stephen Davis?). Letting Moose go was a terrible mistake after 2004. We maybe win a Super Bowl in 2005 if we just had another guy opposite of Steve.

[electro's horse]

27 minutes ago, TN05 said:

This is a really good way to look at it. Dude could spot the best first-round pick every time. Even his one bust (Jeff Otah) was actually a fantastic player that just had a terrible injury record after 2008. Otah was a phenomenal rookie.

I think he was most weak in free agency. Rarely made big movies and when he did, they rarely panned out (aside from what, Stephen Davis?). Letting Moose go was a terrible mistake after 2004. We maybe win a Super Bowl in 2005 if we just had another guy opposite of Steve.

Jeff otah wasn’t even hurt, he just didn’t want to play football. He was rehabbing his “back injury” at a massage envy and tried to reimburse the team for it. When he went to the jets they gave him a physical and then quietly released him. Word got out on him fast. He was a big contributor to the whole “Nigerians are soft” racist narrative. The team doesn’t go to the playoffs in 2008 without him, which in retrospect might have been good for the franchise. 

the better what is from that draft is that the panthers were going to take Ryan Clady but the broncos sniped him. Second round would have been Matt Forte. Basically the same draft they had but you get a ten year offensive tackle and keep the 2009 first. 

Hurney was very successful early on in free agency, but later they just didn’t have the cap space to make stuff work. Obviously Davis, but also proehl, Jake etc. Ken Lucas was a big get. Kemo’eatu was a huge signing at the time but he just couldn’t stay healthy and was kinda a product of the system in Baltimore. Eventually blew out his Achilles doing a warmup jog at training camp. 

moose was never going to resign. He wanted the big contract and the panthers weren’t in a position to say no. They’d signed Steve smith to a huge contract extension before the 2004 season and couldn’t afford both. Plus, Keary Colbert was second team all rookie that year and looked ready to step into moose’s shoes. PLUS plus, Hurney eventually brought moose back anyway!

I don’t think the panthers are winning a superbowl in 2005 with another receiver. The Seahawks were very good that year and they just didn’t have the defense to stop their running game. The real thing there was the bears game. Whoever won that game was losing the next round regardless; that was probably the best pure football game in panthers history and both teams were destroyed. Peppers was probably playing in Seattle with a broken collarbone. 

your big what if team was 2004. That team was so fuging loaded and they just couldn’t catch a break. It’s a testament to how good they were that they started our 1-7 and missed the playoffs just by the most bullshit fourth down fuging ten yard hover dive from Vick I still cannot get over. 

[strato]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Going into a season with Chandler and Bell penciled in as your starting OTs is just inexcusable. That's the type of OT tanden you field after getting decimated by injuries. To go into a season with them planned starters to bookend your OL is just unbelievable roster neglect.

And his three amigo cornerback draft. After egotistically rescinding Norman’s tag. 
And his spiteful treatment of Smitty. I know the financial havoc the contract was creating but his handling of it was low rent. Gettleman was low rent. I loved JR giving him the boot. 

Edited 7 hours ago by strato

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, strato said:

And his three amigo cornerback draft. After egotistically rescinding Norman’s tag. 
And his spiteful treatment of Smitty. I know the financial havoc the contract was creating but his handling of it was low rent. Gettleman was low rent. I loved JR giving him the boot. 

I'll admit to getting duped by his early success finding impact free agents in the dumpster bin but man, that really was fool's gold. It was all downhill after that 

[electro's horse]

Not extending norman was the right move btw. History has born that out. 

getting nothing for him to prove a point was peak stupid machismo bullshit. 

[frankw]

Tagging Norman should have been an obvious move. Instead we let him walk and then a year later that horrendous panic signing of Matt Kalil happened.

[strato]

23 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Not extending norman was the right move btw. History has born that out. 

getting nothing for him to prove a point was peak stupid machismo bullshit. 

Old G man proved a point but not the one he intended to prove.