Mike White or Hendon Hooker coming back?

[strato]

40 minutes ago, Shocker said:

I told everyone that Dan Morgan ain’t it.  The team needs to hire consultants to evaluate QBs cuz he can’t do it

Morgan played MLB at a high level and set a SB record for tackles (11, broken later it stands at 12 now). He knows, he just has to get through the season.

This was always going to be the course the team took. 
Because of the owner and the investment made.
If it wasn’t Morgan, anybody else hired as GM would have had the same terms imposed. Give Bryce every chance. In terms of games, in terms of talent around him, that was the mission. 
I don’t want to give Tepper credit he may not deserve so I won’t say we only have a few more games to suffer, but I hope this is season is enough to settle the issue. 
 

Edited 1 hour ago by strato

[Jmac]

1 minute ago, strato said:

Morgan played MLB at a high level and set a SB record for tackles (11, broken later it stands at 12 now). He knows, he just has to get through the season.

This was always going to be the course the team took. 
Because of the owner and the investment made.
If it wasn’t Morgan, anybody else hired as GM would have had the same terms imposed. Give Bryce every chance. In terms of games, in terms of talent around him, that was the mission. 
I don’t want to give Tepper credit he may not spdeserve so I won’t say we only have a few more games to suffer, but I hope this is season is enough to settle the issue. 
 

Tepper had his thumb on the scale. Anyone who has played at a high level like Dan knows that a little man QB is a problem. Can't tell the hedge-fund king anything. He knows the football......  

[strato]

2 minutes ago, Jmac said:

Tepper had his thumb on the scale. Anyone who has played at a high level like Dan knows that a little man QB is a problem. Can't tell the hedge-fund king anything. He knows the football......  

I feel certain there was a prescribed timeline and probably linked to the 5th year option crossroads.  

Edited 1 hour ago by strato

[frankw]

48 minutes ago, Shocker said:

I told everyone that Dan Morgan ain’t it.  The team needs to hire consultants to evaluate QBs cuz he can’t do it

People get too caught up in the history he has with the team and cannot separate the GM from the player.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

People get too caught up in the history he has with the team and cannot separate the GM from the player.

There is some of that but honestly last draft was pretty good.

I don't think we can evaluate him on QBs as long as Bryce Young is around. Somehow the guy captured the Teppers attention and the Panthers are those twos personal Madden experience, at least with a QB.

[frankw]

Just now, mav1234 said:

There is some of that but honestly last draft was pretty good.

I don't think we can evaluate him on QBs as long as Bryce Young is around. Somehow the guy captured the Teppers attention and the Panthers are those twos personal Madden experience, at least with a QB.

Honestly he's hit and miss with the draft. There is much to like with this years draft but it's still early. The Brooks miss looms large and was just an unnecessary move. And at this point we cannot ignore the XL pick any longer and that pick opens a different conversation btw because there were weird things going on with that like why was Bryce Young's father publicly lobbying for XL and pushing who the Panthers should draft? He's better than Scott Fitterer in the draft but I mean that's saying the absolute bare minimum because Scott Fitterer was the antichrist as an evaluator of talent in the draft.

Free agency this year Dan Morgan did well overall with what he had to work with.

But all roads lead back to quarterback. It is the most consequential position on the football field. To do what we did with this QB room two years in a row is negligence and should not happen with a professional evaluator of talent.

[strato]

15 minutes ago, frankw said:

People get too caught up in the history he has with the team and cannot separate the GM from the player.

If you agreed to work under a condition and your hands were tied… you would pretty much do what Morgan has done, or tried to do.  Which is improve everything else.  
 

Taking QB out of Morgan’s evaluation makes him look pretty good.

There are tells that he was under a mandate IMO which is the OL construction, and the two first picks in 2024 being offensive skill guys. His work in his second year looks much better.
We potentially had one of the top few drafts of all the teams in 2025. 
I would personally give him the QB transition, if we have one, and see what he does in the draft and FA one more year before judging him.  

 

Edited 1 hour ago by strato

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, strato said:

If you agreed to work under a condition and your hands were tied… you would pretty much do what Morgan has done, or tried to do.  Which is improve everything else.  
 

Taking QB out of Morgan’s evaluation makes him look pretty good.

There are tells that he was under a mandate IMO which is the OL construction, and the two first picks in 2024 being offensive skill guys. His work in his second year looks much better.
We potentially had one of the top few drafts of all the teams in 2025. 
I would personally give him the QB transition, if we have one, and see what he does in the draft and FA one more year before judging him.  
 

I like Dan Morgan the person and the player. I like some of the things he's done here with the draft and free agency within the last 12 months.

But what he has done at QB is a fireable offense. I know the Tepper's meddle. But I cannot get on board with this notion that Dan Morgan is entirely a hostage to the whims of the Tepper's commands regarding quarterback and Dan Morgan cannot freely think for himself.

He is a willing participant folks.

[SCO96]

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

But all roads lead back to quarterback. It is the most consequential position on the football field. To do what we did with this QB room two years in a row is negligence and should not happen with a professional evaluator of talent.

We all agree with you on this. But, I think Tepper wants Bryce to succeed with the new coach and GM because of the huge investment to draft him. This is understandable.

I get feeling that he doesn't want any QB on that roster who is a clear cut better option than Bryce at this point. That would make him look bad...again. We haven't had winning season since he bought the team. He trades away vital draft capital and best WR to obtain a guy #1 overall in the draft and that guy has turned out to be arguable the least productive starter in the NFL over the past 3 seasons. That's got to be a HUGE blow to his ego.

[frankw]

4 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

We all agree with you on this. But, I think Tepper wants Bryce to succeed with the new coach and GM because of the huge investment to draft him. This is understandable.

I get feeling that he doesn't want any QB on that roster who is a clear cut better option than Bryce at this point. That would make him look bad...again. We haven't had winning season since he bought the team. He trades away vital draft capital and best WR to obtain a guy #1 overall in the draft and that guy has turned out to be arguable the least productive starter in the NFL over the past 3 seasons. That's got to be a HUGE blow to his ego.

The issue is no one can say definitively that Dan Morgan did not want to draft Bryce Young and thus as a result no one can say all the things he has done have essentially been against his own wishes.

If we had hired Dan fresh from another organization and he had zero ties to decisions here that had transpired in 2023 and prior that would be one thing. We could give him some leeway. But he was here and was involved when we went to great lengths to give ourselves as much QB depth as possible.

[strato]

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

The issue is no one can say definitively that Dan Morgan did not want to draft Bryce Young and thus as a result no one can say all the things he has done have essentially been against his own wishes.

If we had hired Dan fresh from another organization and he had zero ties to decisions here that had transpired in 2023 and prior that would be one thing. We could give him some leeway. But he was here and was involved when we went to great lengths to give ourselves as much QB depth as possible.

I am not sure anyone here can definitively say Morgan Did want to draft Young. Or even make that trade.  
Also, I am giving him leeway whether you want to do that or not. We will have to disagree. 

I cannot get my mind around the idea that he could look at Bryce and endorse taking him 1.1. 
If it comes out of his mouth then I will believe it. Not another poster or five other posters. 
 

WI will concede that possibly he wa fooled last year with so many others, into thinking Bryce might have a future. That via as far as I can go 

I also think, without proof, that he defers to the offensive guys in some of these evaluations  and is the bigger voice on the defensive evaluations because that is his background  

 

Edited 53 minutes ago by strato

[frankw]

11 minutes ago, strato said:

I am not sure anyone here can definitively say Morgan Did want to draft Young. Or even make that trade.  
Also, I am giving him leeway whether you want to do that or not. We will have to disagree. 

I cannot get my mind around the idea that he could look at Bryce and endorse taking him 1.1. 
If it comes out of his mouth then I will believe it. Not another poster or five other posters. 
 

WI will concede that possibly he wa fooled last year with so many others, into thinking Bryce might have a future. That via as far as I can go 

I also think, without proof, that he defers to the offensive guys in some of these evaluations  and is the bigger voice on the defensive evaluations because that is his background  

 

I understand why you want it to be true that he did not want to draft Bryce Young and personally I feel the same way but we cannot say that and we have Morgan's actions for the last 2 years that reflect the complete opposite. If Dan never wanted him he would have had a fallback plan this year after Bryce opened 2023 and 2024 playing poorly at best and Dan also would certainly have made a move before the trade deadline recently. But none of that happened. That simply does not sound like the actions of someone who never wanted that guy. That's what we have to go by and that's the summary of the situation as it stands however difficult it may be to have to grapple with.

[strato]

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

I understand why you want it to be true that he did not want to draft Bryce Young and personally I feel the same way but we cannot say that and we have Morgan's actions for the last 2 years that reflect the complete opposite. If Dan never wanted him he would have had a fallback plan this year after Bryce opened 2023 and 2024 playing poorly at best and Dan also would certainly have made a move before the trade deadline recently. But none of that happened. That simply does not sound like the actions of someone who never wanted that guy. That's what we have to go by and that's the summary of the situation as it stands however difficult it may be to have to grapple with.

Absent proof that he absolutely  concurred 100% with his superior, there is nothing that can change my opinion. 

Also, I would appreciate it if you would not lay the motivation for that opinion on wanting Morgan to succeed because he is an ex Panther. I do want hi. To succeed because of that and just because he is the GM of my favorite team, but I have enough independent thinking ability to separate my feelings from what I see as reason. 
 

I said many times before Morgan ever made GM or before Bryce was chosen that I could not believe and ex player could endorse that decision. I was speaking of Reich but also a MLB? Really?
I feel like any ex high level defensive guy would be salivating at the prospect  of facing a Bryce in a game.  
Whether an ex Panther, a Giant, a Buc, whatever jersey they wore. 
 

Edited 34 minutes ago by strato