First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Kamara is certainly later in his career but he's not exactly chopped liver. Again, outside this fanbase i doubt he'd lose that contest.

As far as other comparisons:

 

I don't see the need to move on from RBs....

I didn't say he was a bum.   I said most knowledgeable people are flat out taking the DUO of RBs that have generated a top 10 rush team over the season.....over Kamara in his worst season of his career (leading a league worst attack).....if asked which team is giving their QB better skill players in the backfield this season.  

It's amazing what Bryce defense will do.  Got you in here essentially making wilds claim about run games/RB talent in 2025.  Pooping on a top 10 rush attack that is the foundation of this team to prop up a league worst rush attack. 

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I'm not relying on rushing yards per game.  Which is why I presented you with a host of different offensive production and efficiency stats.   You said there was only one.  I shared several. You just cherry picked one of the many shared out.   

and you are still intentionally distorting the most basic facts like wins/losses lol. 

the only gassing up being done here is about Bryce.  Most of the thread is talking about Shough(our next opponent) in very normal terms. 

Why are you not just using year totals?  You are hung up on starts like coming in during a blowout when teams are in prevent in some sort of disadvantage to a QB or something.  That's free yards normally.  It's because without those he creeps above Bryce as you shrink the sample size or some people might see that as cherry picking (while you are blaming someone else for doing the same).  On the year Bryce has a better rating and QBR.  ESPN just uses totals on the seasons in their QB stats.  Shough is also 2 years older than Bryce despite being a rookie.  

This anti-Bryce obsession is starting to creep up on rippadon levels with some of you.  I get he has had a rough start but I also understand we are stuck with him the rest of the year and more than likely next year.  Hopefully he can figure out how to play at a high level more consistently.  

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

I don't see the need to move on from RBs....

I didn't say he was a bum.   I said most knowledgeable people are flat out taking the DUO of RBs that have generated a top 10 rush team over the season.....over Kamara in his worst season of his career (leading a league worst attack).....if asked which team is giving their QB better skill players in the backfield this season.  

It's amazing what Bryce defense will do.  Got you in here essentially making wilds claim about run games/RB talent in 2025.  Pooping on a top 10 rush attack that is the foundation of this team to prop up a league worst rush attack. 

If I'd just looked at the comparison I put up, I probably wouldn't want to focus outside the running backs either

(though even that argument is fatally flawed since you don't want to acknowledge that Dowdle is banged up)

Unfortunately, the league doesn't allow us to play seven on seven. So yeah, those other position comparisons do actually matter. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

This anti-Bryce obsession is starting to creep up on rippadon levels with some of you.

Okay, that's below the belt

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Okay, that's below the belt

It's every freaking topic and they start skewing and moving goalposts.  Bryce has been more bad than good.  It's easy to be critical of him and rightfully so.  There is not need to make it every topic and exaggerate it.

After Arizona it was "oh he couldn't play good on that final drive when the defense wasn't it prevent" many GWDs later it evolved to "GWDs is a dumb stat"

Then it was he needs his RBs to run over 200 yards to win.  Then he cooks the Falcons breaking our franchise record for passing yards in a game (running game doesn't get 100).  "It's an outlier.  His teammates helped him with YAC"

He can't be good teams, beats GB "it was just our running game" beats LAR "only deep passes were on 4th down, take away his 3 deep shots and he didn't play that great"  (that one is my favorite excuse).  

-He played bad against SF, I get it.  He played really good football on the two games around it though.  I just want to see some consistency.

[CRA]

29 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Why are you not just using year totals?  You are hung up on starts like coming in during a blowout when teams are in prevent in some sort of disadvantage to a QB or something.  That's free yards normally.  It's because without those he creeps above Bryce as you shrink the sample size or some people might see that as cherry picking (while you are blaming someone else for doing the same).  On the year Bryce has a better rating and QBR.  ESPN just uses totals on the seasons in their QB stats.  Shough is also 2 years older than Bryce despite being a rookie.  

This anti-Bryce obsession is starting to creep up on rippadon levels with some of you.  I get he has had a rough start but I also understand we are stuck with him the rest of the year and more than likely next year.  Hopefully he can figure out how to play at a high level more consistently.  

if you are talking game production as the discussion, you basically are forced to remove them to even get in the realm of honest discussion.  Shough has a 2 pass 4th quarter game and a late 3rd quarter entrance game.  That will wildly distort the numbers if you are wanting to talk about what he has done in games.  

and the generally narrative we talk about most QBs is their starts.  Because is what a QB is. 

The Bryce gymnastics and gaslighting and way worse than the "hate" around here. 

 

 

 

 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

if you are talking game production as the discussion, you basically are forced to remove them to even get in the realm of honest discussion.  Shough has a 2 pass 4th quarter game and a late 3rd quarter entrance game.  That will wildly distort the numbers if you are wanting to talk about what he has done in games.  

and the generally narrative we talk about most QBs is their starts.  Because that what a QB is. 

The Bryce gymnastics and gaslighting and way worse than the "hate" around here. 

 

 

 

 

 

If a backup QB comes into a game down by 3 scores, they're passing. It's probably going to be 4:1 pass to run. The stats are going to be skewed. It's not going to be an accurate reflection of an entire game plan from start to finish. Pretty simple stuff. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It's every freaking topic and they start skewing and moving goalposts.  Bryce has been more bad than good.  It's easy to be critical of him and rightfully so.  There is not need to make it every topic and exaggerate it.

After Arizona it was "oh he couldn't play good on that final drive when the defense wasn't it prevent" many GWDs later it evolved to "GWDs is a dumb stat"

Then it was he needs his RBs to run over 200 yards to win.  Then he cooks the Falcons breaking our franchise record for passing yards in a game (running game doesn't get 100).  "It's an outlier.  His teammates helped him with YAC"

He can't be good teams, beats GB "it was just our running game" beats LAR "only deep passes were on 4th down, take away his 3 deep shots and he didn't play that great"  (that one is my favorite excuse).  

-He played bad against SF, I get it.  He played really good football on the two games around it though.  I just want to see some consistency.

But I was assured it was "Bryce stans" who were causing all the ruckus

I'm starting to think some of our guys would look at a boxing match that ended in a knockout but argue the loser was really the better boxer because "the stats show he landed more punches"

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

if you are talking game production as the discussion, you basically are forced to remove them to even get in the realm of honest discussion.  Shough has a 2 pass 4th quarter game and a late 3rd quarter entrance game.  That will wildly distort the numbers if you are wanting to talk about what he has done in games.  

and the generally narrative we talk about most QBs is their starts.  Because that what a QB is. 

The Bryce gymnastics and gaslighting and way worse than the "hate" around here. 

 

 

 

 

 

I just click ESPN, NFL, Stats and it goes straight to season totals.  If you want to dismiss certain games to help one player vs another you go right ahead.  

You only think one side is way worse because you are on the other side.  They both are annoying I assure you. 

[ForJimmy]

7 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

If a backup QB comes into a game down by 3 scores, they're passing. It's probably going to be 4:1 pass to run. The stats are going to be skewed. It's not going to be an accurate reflection of an entire game plan from start to finish. Pretty simple stuff. 

Correct and the defense is probably in prevent.  These were referred to as "garbage time" stats when Bryce does them.  It should help the QB in theory.  

[SmokinwithWilly]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

Correct and the defense is probably in prevent.  These were referred to as "garbage time" stats when Bryce does them.  It should help the QB in theory.  

But the opposite is also true. A QB comes in up by 3 scores and hands off the rest of the game and throws 2 passes, it throws off the stats. Using a complete game is a more accurate reflection is all. Same as if a QB got knocked out on the 2nd series. That game shouldn't count as a complete game for stats purposes. 

[mrcompletely11]

49 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Kamara is certainly later in his career but he's not exactly chopped liver. Again, outside this fanbase i doubt he'd lose that contest.

As far as other comparisons:

I'd put Tet McMillan equal with Chris Olave, though I think McMillan might be hitting a bit of a rookie wall. Others may say McMillan is promising but not to that level just yet.

Damian Lewis is equal to or better than Dillon Radunz and Ickey is better than Kelvin Banks, though Banks even as a rookie ain't bad. The left side of our OL wins, but not in a blowout.

On the other side, if he were fully healthy I could argue Taylor Moton over Taliese Fuaga but I don't think he is. The Saints likely take that one for now at least, and probably in the future since Fuaga is younger.

Jalen Coker is getting back to form. Putting him over Dante Perris right now is probably a bit of a stretch but he's still doing well.

So this far, fairly comparable / even.

But here's where it starts to get bad...

Whoever's starting at center this week vs Luke Fortner? Eeehhh, no.

Right guard of the week against Cesar Ruiz? Uh uh.

Any of our TEs vs Juwan Johnson? Don't think so.

Xavier Legette over anybody at all? Oy

So yeah, overall at this point Shough has a better supporting cast around him.

Once Hunt and others are healthy again it becomes a better argument, but as mentioned the league isn't willing to postpone things so we can be at our best.

Goddamn you actually took time to right all that out.  If you think their line and rbs are better than ours you are clearly losing it

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

But I was assured it was "Bryce stans" who were causing all the ruckus

I'm starting to think some of our guys would look at a boxing match that ended in a knockout but argue the loser was really the better boxer because "the stats show he landed more punches"

 the Bryce stans basically have been ripping off the Skip/The Golden Calf of Bristol argument.   It doesn't matter if he is below average 98% of his snaps.  That 2%!!!

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

But the opposite is also true. A QB comes in up by 3 scores and hands off the rest of the game and throws 2 passes, it throws off the stats. Using a complete game is a more accurate reflection is all. Same as if a QB got knocked out on the 2nd series. That game shouldn't count as a complete game for stats purposes. 

So if a QB get benched his stats for that game disappear?  Season totals are typically the stats that are highlighted.  What you are saying it all true though.  It's why looking at stats without context is pointless.

If you are just looking at stats this year Bryce Young mimics Bo Nix.  Bryce barely edges him out in YPA and completion but Bo has one more passing TD and the same INTs.  They are two very different QBs though but statistically they are very similar.  Nix's team is the current 1 seed and we are trying to sneak in.