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Go after Shedeur this offseason.

Proudiddy

By Proudiddy,
in Carolina Panthers

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Car123 Experienced

Car123

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2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I sure have. In most of those cases the statistical argument is extremely clear that even this season they are better than Bryce and in some cases you have QB's playing at or near the bottom end of their career results but basically being slightly worse or better than Bryce in his career best year.

The damning thing comes when you look at total body of work. Then it becomes obvious that all those QB's are a minimum of a tier above Bryce if not more than one tier above him.

I understand that we have seen blips of very good and good Bryce play this season but it's been very fleeting, similar to 2023 and 2024. Even at his "career bests" he would be on pace to have a very underwhelming season by non-Bryce standards.

How are they better than Bryce Statistically? Bryce literally has better stats than them this year.

No poo it’s his career best. How many quarterbacks have their best seasons in their first two seasons? 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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23 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Josh Allen was not a very good qb his first two years. His rookie season was worse than Young’s. He’s arguably the best in the league right now. Some QBs takes longer than others to mature. Bryce is showing progress. Bryce and the rest of the players have won 6 of their last 8 games. Bryce has played well for most of that stretch. I’m very hopeful he has turned the corner and will show positive consistency.

By year 2 Allen already had eclipsed the numbers Bryce is on pace for now. By year three, he was a Pro Bowler and MVP candidate.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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38 minutes ago, Car123 said:

The kid in Minnesota, Saints QB, Geno, Tua, Purdy, Stroud, Trevor Lawerence, Flacco, Fields, Caleb Williams, Penix jr.

I'll give you Nine, Geno, Tua, and Penix. Flacco was a guy playing due to injury, not a planned starter. I honestly think Bryce would probably only be playing better than Nine and Penix if you inserted him onto those respective rosters though.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Car123 said:

How are they better than Bryce Statistically? Bryce literally has better stats than them this year.

No poo it’s his career best. How many quarterbacks have their best seasons in their first two seasons? 

Pick your metrics. Do you want basic QB metrics, per game averages, advanced metrics? I can break down whatever you like but when I try to do this as a "general" thing then people immediately say that they don't like the stats. So, pick yours and we will take a look but I am going to add other statistical context that I think it relevant, although open for debate.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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19 minutes ago, toldozer said:

He's better than Geno.

He is having a modestly better season than Geno but Geno is a better QB. I will say that Geno also leads the league in sacks. Not to mention his season has been more efficient Bryce with more TO's so far. Hence why their QB Ratings are very close(87.9 vs. 84.5).

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

He is having a modestly better season than Geno but Geno is a better QB. I will say that Geno also leads the league in sacks. Not to mention his season has been more efficient Bryce with more TO's so far. Hence why their QB Ratings are very close(87.9 vs. 84.5).

I don’t know what that line in LV is doing but blocking isn’t it. They’re getting jumped more than a subway turnstile. 

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Car123 Experienced

Car123

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Pick your metrics. Do you want basic QB metrics, per game averages, advanced metrics? I can break down whatever you like but when I try to do this as a "general" thing then people immediately say that they don't like the stats. So, pick yours and we will take a look but I am going to add other statistical context that I think it relevant, although open for debate.

Whichever metric you prefer.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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19 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Young was great vs the Rams, Exceptional vs Atlanta. Give him his due. His passer rating vs LA was the 2nd highest in Panthers history. If Stafford had that stat line vs Carolina, Bryce haters would be chanting MVP.

But isn't that sort of what we are getting at? Having 1-3 average or better games per season is what you expect from your #2 QB, not a starting QB. Especially when most of the rest of the performances are mediocre to extremely bad. 

There are very few QB's in the NFL that can say that at the moment. That's basically less productive, Jets era Sam Darnold.

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Car123 Experienced

Car123

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

But isn't that sort of what we are getting at? Having 1-3 average or better games per season is what you expect from your #2 QB, not a starting QB. Especially when most of the rest of the performances are mediocre to extremely bad. 

There are very few QB's in the NFL that can say that at the moment. That's basically less productive, Jets era Sam Darnold.

The people who aren’t doomers have seen progress and are hoping he will continue to progress and become a consistently great quarterback. No one is saying this is the finished product and has played well all year.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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38 minutes ago, Car123 said:

. If Stafford had that stat line vs Carolina, Bryce haters would be chanting MVP.

Literally no one would be celebrating Stafford barely hitting 200 yards in a game vs Carolina

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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18 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Sigh... go back and read the post I quoted and then honestly try to tell me you weren't cherry picking metrics to try to make your point. Then you pick two games (with a combined 14 passing attempts in them) out of 20 total games (with a combined 631 passing attempts in the other 18 games) to further demonstrate you aren't cherry picking? I mean... I guess I should thank you for taking the time to demonstrate my point. LOL

Nope, but I do see it happen a lot.

Again, it's why I don't bother with them. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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15 hours ago, TD alt said:

Oh it absolutely makes a difference to have your people talk to the GM in private than to make public proclamations. I really don't understand how anyone could say different, but I guess it's an opinion. 

I can't say what view the league had. I believe it was more about pre-draft stuff than anything that happened on day three. Of course the Browns drafted him 3 picks later, so at this point it doesn't really matter, as he's in the league.

Deion Sanders has taken a step back. He's always going to be in the picture to some extent because of who he is. As a father, it's OK to guide your son in private, and it's also OK to praise him publicly. 

The league demonstrated their view by not drafting him. 

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    • TN05
      First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

      By TN05 · Posted

      The fact you're having to rely on "rushing yards per game" (he is averaging 18, Bryce is averaging 10) here is really telling lmao. I already gave the clear advanced differences. Shough is playing worse than Bryce. You are literally gassing up a worse, 2-4 QB for a rival team and I find that incredibly funny.
    • kungfoodude
      Go after Shedeur this offseason.

      By kungfoodude · Posted

      Okay so I took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play.  Overall, I would say this indicates by the categories that I have detailed out that Tua and Geno are clearly the guys that are having worse seasons than Bryce. I would add that I am still of the opinion that they are better overall QB's given both capability and past performances. I will definitely concede there is not a solid statistical argument for them having a better year than Bryce, to date.  Here is the data I gathered and I have shaded the cells according to "better than" or "worse than" Bryce. In a couple of the categories, this is an inverse because I am indicating these were less aggravating situations than Bryce has had and therefore less excusable reasoning for sucking.  Let me know if there are any questions on the data/categories/etc.
    • SmokinwithWilly
      Go after Shedeur this offseason.

      By SmokinwithWilly · Posted

      Which is why you can't ignore the 1st 2 seasons because the Saints and 9ers looked exactly like Bryce in the 1st 2 seasons. 
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