The Case for(or Against) Drafting/Signing a TE

[Waldo]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think Scourton/Umanmeilen's ceilings will ultimately be potential Wonnum/Jones II replacements and that's about it. Umanmeilen has the higher ceiling but he looks pretty far from being able to reach it. At this point you have to consider them rotational guys and try to get actual elite/starting talent at EDGE. Let them develop as rotational guys and hopefully the light clicks on eventually.

I would imagine any/all OC changes will be basically forced by ownership prior to firing Dave.

Well it's who they tied themselves to for at least another year but i agree. They will be lucky to find a useful contributor but until I see the DC situation change I am presuming it's SSDD.

Well it sounds like maybe in 2027. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

23 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think he would just end up in a crowded TE room without the ability to really stand out. Tremble is a decent enough roster guy that makes sense for us because we have such heavy multiple TE utilization rates but realistically he is a JAG. Sanders is trending bust and Evans I still have some hope for, although he has fallen off recently. I don't think there is a single guy on the roster that cannot be upgraded over.

I just don't think Mayer is an upgrade over really any of them. Probably a lateral movement at the very best. 

I'm honestly looking beyond DC at this point. He's too green and is making too many simple mistakes. I think he's gone after next year. I think the intention in LV was to use Mayer and Bowers similar to Gronk/Hernandez in NE. That's never really struck me as Carroll's MO though after watching him for years out here in Seattle. 

He's talented enough and I think he just got lost behind the phenom that is Bowers because he couldn't develop in Carroll's system. I'm surprised Bowers is used as much as he is, though they really don't have anyone else. TE's don't really exist as focus receivers in Carroll's offense. I live in the PNW so I've been subjected to a lot of Seahawks football. 

Coaches other utilize their TEs. We should too. Tremble is OK, but he's always been a project as a receiver. Again, all this is of we could get him at the right price. I wouldn't pay a lot because we need to spend on defense. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

Well it's who they tied themselves to for at least another year but i agree. They will be lucky to find a useful contributor but until I see the DC situation change I am presuming it's SSDD.

Well it sounds like maybe in 2027. 

As I keep saying, defensive coordinator here is our most interesting offseason storyline. That will be a very interesting thing to watch unfold. 

2027 for DC? I am not sure about that. I think a lot depends on the remaining games and which direction they chose to go in the offseason. If we quintuple down on Bryce, I think Canales is on a hotter seat than we may know. That would be a bet on the future being Bryce but not necessarily Dave. To me that's an indication of the choice. So, if we struggle these last three games and then slide backwards in 2026, expect a rip roaring fire to be under Canales seat as the season continues. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him canned during the season.

Now, if we opt to move on in some way from Bryce(new starter, trade him, decline 5th year, etc) then I think that buys Dave a little big of grace(situation dependent) if he is trying to get a new QB established in this offense. That leash may shorten or grow based on the direction they pivot. So, the seat could get cooler or hotter. Results will matter in either case.

Tepper has shown to be impatient with head coaches, so we will see how he handles this slight amount of success.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Canales doesn't have a history of TE utilization, however.

I would imagine they will try to upgrade at WR. Legette has already seen his PT cut by about mid-season. He went from 70-90% utilization on offensive snaps to 55-70% utilization. 

I think you see that they basically are aware that he just isn't a capable NFL player. He is having a sophomore slump but that's tough when you also had a freshman slump. 

The fans see a lot of potential in that WR room, and I do to an extent, but you also have to acknowledge that despite the improvement, it's still one of the NFL's worst WR corps.

I don't honestly even remember who his starting TE was in 2023 (his only OC season).

He has made at least some use of our TEs this season but I get the feeling that after last year they were expecting more from Sanders than were currently getting. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I'm honestly looking beyond DC at this point. He's too green and is making too many simple mistakes. I think he's gone after next year. I think the intention in LV was to use Mayer and Bowers similar to Gronk/Hernandez in NE. That's never really struck me as Carroll's MO though after watching him for years out here in Seattle. 

He's talented enough and I think he just got lost behind the phenom that is Bowers because he couldn't develop in Carroll's system. I'm surprised Bowers is used as much as he is, though they really don't have anyone else. TE's don't really exist as focus receivers in Carroll's offense. I live in the PNW so I've been subjected to a lot of Seahawks football. 

Coaches other utilize their TEs. We should too. Tremble is OK, but he's always been a project as a receiver. Again, all this is of we could get him at the right price. I wouldn't pay a lot because we need to spend on defense. 

Eh...I don't think Carroll is to blame for Mayer. He is a 3rd year player and has never really been able to elevate above a JAG status across multiple coaches. TBH, I think he is much more Tommy Tremble than he is Brock Bowers. Tremble might even be a good comp. 

I am not lobbying to get rid of Tremble but he has basically hit his Ian Thomas wall. He is who he is. If you lined up all 5 years of statistics and tape, you'd be hard pressed to determine which player was the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th year guy. He's a decent and rosterable TE. He's also a guy that we should be actively trying to upgrade over.....and we have. Sanders was the first and then we still drafted Evans. Some of this was we run a TE heavy offense and had an even worse TE room but some of it has also been that Tremble is a complimentary/role player. He really shouldn't be getting anywhere near the bulk of snaps.

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't honestly even remember who his starting TE was in 2023 (his only OC season).

He has made at least some use of our TEs this season but I get the feeling that after last year they were expecting more from Sanders than were currently getting. 

I mean it is literally in the OP, bruh.

[Waldo]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

As I keep saying, defensive coordinator here is our most interesting offseason storyline. That will be a very interesting thing to watch unfold. 

2027 for DC? I am not sure about that. I think a lot depends on the remaining games and which direction they chose to go in the offseason. If we quintuple down on Bryce, I think Canales is on a hotter seat than we may know. That would be a bet on the future being Bryce but not necessarily Dave. To me that's an indication of the choice. So, if we struggle these last three games and then slide backwards in 2026, expect a rip roaring fire to be under Canales seat as the season continues. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him canned during the season.

Now, if we opt to move on in some way from Bryce(new starter, trade him, decline 5th year, etc) then I think that buys Dave a little big of grace(situation dependent) if he is trying to get a new QB established in this offense. That leash may shorten or grow based on the direction they pivot. So, the seat could get cooler or hotter. Results will matter in either case.

Tepper has shown to be impatient with head coaches, so we will see how he handles this slight amount of success.

Agreed. DC and QB will be the story of 2026 on the current trajectory.

I see us as backsliding in 2026. It's like us game to game this year but seasons. These people are inconsistent and that doesn't seem to be changing. 5th year Bryce and Dave's noose is unavoidable and that's what I am still expecting until it changes.

I still say he was too patient with Rhule. There were no justifiable reasons for a year 3 except what Tepper blew on that contract which is a pretty weak reason given that situation. Reich was a disaster and more Tepper's fault for making it unavoidable. Even Ron had run his course and looked like he was mailing it in doing it the Tepper way in 2019. If anything he wouldn't have to fire so much if he wasn't such a terrible at hiring. That's been a way bigger issue than firing too early IMO 

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean it is literally in the OP, bruh.

So it is

My default course of action if I don't remember something is to look it up. I was actually in the process of doing that when you answered. 

I can see it's gonna be a great day

[kungfoodude]

25 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Agreed. DC and QB will be the story of 2026 on the current trajectory.

I see us as backsliding in 2026. It's like us game to game this year but seasons. These people are inconsistent and that doesn't seem to be changing. 5th year Bryce and Dave's noose is unavoidable and that's what I am still expecting until it changes.

I still say he was too patient with Rhule. There were no justifiable reasons for a year 3 except what Tepper blew on that contract which is a pretty weak reason given that situation. Reich was a disaster and more Tepper's fault for making it unavoidable. Even Ron had run his course and looked like he was mailing it in doing it the Tepper way in 2019. If anything he wouldn't have to fire so much if he wasn't such a terrible at hiring. That's been a way bigger issue than firing too early IMO 

It's super tough for me to predict 2026 without the insane amount of variables involved. I will wait to see what the offseason looks like.

Tepper has tended to be too impatient with HC's and too patient with GM's. Just on average, I would say. I don't think we really ever canned anyone(HC or GM) that didn't have or coming.

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's super tough for me to predict 2026 without the insane amount of variables involved. I will wait to see what the offseason looks like.

Tepper has tended to be too impatient with HC's and too patient with GM's. Just on average, I would say. I don't think we really ever canned anyone(HC or GM) that didn't have or coming.

100% agreed.

They all had it coming because all of them were less than stellar hires in the first place. Even keeping Dan after 2023 was insane. This is the man that chose Hurney to begin his big NFL rollout LOL and that was after canning Ron when they both deserved it from the 2019 build. 

[Mr. Scot]

I'd say one of the other things you have to factor in here is the question of whether Canales is the kind of coach that adapts his system to his players or vice versa.

Going off what we see with Young, I'm gonna say it's probably the former.

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd say one of the other things you have to factor in here is the question of whether Canales is the kind of coach that adapts his system to his players or vice versa.

Going off what we see with Young, I'm gonna say it's probably the former.

I was going to say the latter, TBH. He seems pretty inflexible.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I was going to say the latter, TBH. He seems pretty inflexible.

I felt like he did a good job fixing the issues from the first Saints game, for example. Although I admit mid second half it did kind of feel like he was going back to old tendencies. 

[frankw]

Of course we can but TE like WR is going to continue to be a what if position group until we get a QB in here who can consistently put our receivers in a position to succeed with quality ball placement.