Something I'm wondering about the franchise history drafting QBs...

[thefuzz]

I can vouch for a lot of Panther fans and people in this area, they have not forgotten or forgiven the Panthers for turning their nose up at Vick only to become the worst and most boring team in the league.

I can vouch for a lot of Panther fans and People in this area, they would not have forgiven nor forgotten signing up a recently paroled dog killer to lead their team.

Nor am I dumb enough to think that Micheal Vick would have had even a shread of the success here that he has had in Philly.

[micnificent28]

I posted it on another board (I was on pantherinsider) and posted it. Plus I sent a detailed case as to why Vick was a good fit with our personnel to a local newspaper guy.

I got absolutely destroyed. By the newspaper guy, by the other posters, I mean people who had never posted before were creating accounts just to pile on me. :lol:

So I just abandoned it. It was brutal.

same thing on the huddle. Maybe there were a few Vick supporters myself KT and a handful of others. It got ugly everything from all the crap your seeing with cam and then some. even now some won't admit he's a good quarterback or will say,I still don't want him i'd rather lose all our games that cheer for vick!

[thefuzz]

Let's take a quick trip down memory lane here.

2002 - All of you people who criticize Hurney's inability to gauge QB talent should be happy he didn't jump on Harrington, or make an effort to get Carr.

2003 - With the 8th pick, we got an all-pro left tackle. With the 7th, the Jags got a bust (Leftwich). With the 19th the Ravens got Kyle Boller and with the 22nd the Bears took Grossman.

2004 - We traded up three spots to take Gamble. Maybe if we had sold the farm, we could have gotten up six more spots and taken J.P. Losman. And we also had a young Delhomme who had just brought us to the Super Bowl.

2005 - We take Davis at 14. And we join 23 other GMs in missing on Aaron Rodgers, who went just ahead of Jason Campbell at 24. And this is really the only pick where you can really say we missed on a first round QB. BTW, Delhomme went to the pro bowl in 2004, but I know several people here will claim they still knew better and that we needed a QB in the first round more than anything.

2006 - Coming off an NFC Championship appearance, we're stuck at 27 and take DeAngelo Williams. Maybe we could have traded up to 10 and taken Matt Leinart, or 11 and taken Jay Cutler, but I doubt anyone would have thought that wise...

2007 - Trade down from 14 to 24 and take Jon Beason. Probably could have gotten Brady Quinn instead, but I think we did ok.

2008 - Maybe we should have taken Flacco instead of Stewart, but he was considered a reach at the time at 19, and our pick was 13. He looks good now, but he's still not in the elite category.

2009 - No first round pick because we took Otah in 2008. Josh Freeman at 17 was considered a bit of a reach, but looks great now. Maybe we could have gotten that high, but I doubt it.

2010 - No first round pick because we took Brown in 2009. No way could we have gotten to Bradford at number one. Were you upset that we missed on The Golden Calf of Bristol?

I guess what I'm saying is, the argument that Hurney won't draft a QB in the first round is a bunch of poo. Anyone who says that is only basing it on Rodgers, and if that's the only thing you have, you may as well blame every GM in the league for missing on Brady. Simply put, he hasn't drafted one because he's smarter than you think, and other than Rodgers there hasn't yet been one worth drafting at our position.

I am a Hurney basher...have been for a while, and yes you are correct in saying that Hurney hasn't been in the position to draft a "franchise" QB in the first round......however.

You don't always have to draft said QB, there are other ways to try to acquire one, and Hurney did none of those things. (Matt Moore excluded)

Hurney and Fox didn't value the QB position nearly as much as the rest of the league did, and in doing so we have the wonderful chance to draft no. 1 overall.

[micnificent28]

Everyone wants to give credit to philly for turning vick into a quarterback but, does anyone ever think atlanta was just that bad? No way sitting behind mcnabb just suddenly made vick from a wr to Qb in such a short amount of time. I think he wouldn't have done as well here but our wrs were better than what vick had at the time in atl. Yes they had roddy white but he wasn't devoloped to be half the wr he is now. lots of drops.

[King Taharqa]

I can vouch for a lot of Panther fans and People in this area, they would not have forgiven nor forgotten signing up a recently paroled dog killer to lead their team.

For every one of them, there wouldve been 3-4 who wouldnt've cared. It isnt like Philly fans werent like that at first, acting all snotty and afraid, now all of them are on his balls strong.

Nor am I dumb enough to think that Micheal Vick would have had even a shread of the success here that he has had in Philly.

Are you implying Michael Vick=Clausen & Moore? That he would'ntve brought something to the table they didnt? I find that quite laughable. Just because those 2 couldnt deliver doesnt mean every QB in the NFL would not have. Plenty of QBs in our league could've done better than those 2 did last year.

[Marguide]

My speculation...

With the exodus of Fox, JR made it very clear to Marty that it was his primary task to identify and bring on board a "face of the franchise QB". Jerry understands the importance of this position on the field, and knows we have not given fans their money's worth in the last couple of years.

Furthermore, when Ron Rivera interviewed with JR, one of Ron's primary concerns was whether or not we were prepared to address the QB position. Jerry assured Ron that we were and that neither resources nor some philosophical bent would get in the way.

That is my opinion...if I had a draft publication or web site, I might be tempted to state it as fact, and claim that the info was based on "high ranking league sources".

[teeray]

^ lol at 3rd paragraph

[grateflday]

I've written about this many times and in my opinion, even in retrospect, there was only once in the entire fox/hurney regime that you could justify spending a first on a quarterback, and that was after 2007.

Jake had missed the entire season and Joe Flacco was sitting there. However, it's only barely justifiable. Matt Moore had shown in the final three games he could more than execute the offense.

2003 draft - you wanted a LT. You got him

2004 draft - why would you draft a qb after jake took you to the superbowl and you felt you were (rightly) a few players away from a return?

2005 draft - jake had the best year of his career

2006 draft - jake took you to the nfc championship game

2007 draft - jake wasn't good but there was no run game, no 2nd receiver, adn the offensive line started to decay.

2008 draft - this was the one where you could justify taking flacco, and I really thought at the time they were going to. on the other hand, jake looked fantastic in limited action, and moore showed flashes at the end of the season.

2009 draft - no first rounder

2010 draft - no first rounder

it just never came up.

This is where I dont agree and the Panthers should have followed the Green Bay model and the way it used to and should be...... that is draft a guy and let him sit while your veteran ages, etc, then transition to the new guy. For years the organization had no real Plan B, other than late round QB's and another teams bust in Carr.

I can see the other perspective of looking at the position players drafted in Rd 1, but there are some guys I would be fine not having if it meant the Panthers had gone QB instead and had a guy ready.

At this point it wont matter any more because they are gonna pick Cam at #1 :cool:

[Cyberjag]

I am a Hurney basher...have been for a while, and yes you are correct in saying that Hurney hasn't been in the position to draft a "franchise" QB in the first round......however.

You don't always have to draft said QB, there are other ways to try to acquire one, and Hurney did none of those things. (Matt Moore excluded)

Hurney and Fox didn't value the QB position nearly as much as the rest of the league did, and in doing so we have the wonderful chance to draft no. 1 overall.

So outside of Brees, who was coming off injury the year Jake took us to the NFC Championship, and Vick, who was getting out of jail, which franchise QB free agent should we have gone after? David Carr maybe? Has there been anyone else?

[jarhead]

We should have signed Vick. :nonod: proven commodity and was cheap. Even if he failed we would have had little invested I him.

Guess we just don't like dog killers. You know I see a clear pattern of bias against dog killers. But I will leave that debate for another day

We came very close to doing just that acording to a stakeholder in Panthers.He told me in the end they were concerned with fans perception and sending a conflicting message that we will tolerate a distractive player.I am sure they wish they would have taken him now.

[thefuzz]

So outside of Brees, who was coming off injury the year Jake took us to the NFC Championship, and Vick, who was getting out of jail, which franchise QB free agent should we have gone after? David Carr maybe? Has there been anyone else?

Oh, lets see here.

Schaub and Cassel come to mind right off the bat.

The QB's don't have to be free agents to go after them, the Bears, Cheifs, and Texans prove that.

[thefuzz]

For every one of them, there wouldve been 3-4 who wouldnt've cared. It isnt like Philly fans werent like that at first, acting all snotty and afraid, now all of them are on his balls strong.

Are you implying Michael Vick=Clausen & Moore? That he would'ntve brought something to the table they didnt? I find that quite laughable. Just because those 2 couldnt deliver doesnt mean every QB in the NFL would not have. Plenty of QBs in our league could've done better than those 2 did last year.

Bullshit on the first point. I would have cared then, and now, and I know many others that would have as well.

As to the second, where did I imply that Vick would equal Clausen and Moore?

Nowhere. What I said is that Vick would not have had nearly the success in Carolina as he did in Philly. Reid runs a very easy system, that is built for QB success, McNabb looked good in it, Vick looks good in it, Kolb looks good in it, etc...

That system was not in place here, and he sure as hell doesn't have a two top 20 WR's to throw to or a top 10 TE in place here either.

Vick would have struggled, and the combo of struggling QB on a losing team and him being a dog killer would have blown up in his, and JR's face.