Can someone shed some light on this idea that Newton is dumb?

[carolinarolls]

If you are in fact... Mel's brother Del... then we can assume that since we know your brother Mel Gibson hates Jews... that kinda increases your chances of being a racist by at least 20%.

Mel Kiper...check the hair;)

[Mr. Scot]

Know how I know you don't read posts well.

I have never ever ever ever said that "only black QBs face these questions." :nonod:

And I appreciate you pointing out the bleacher report articles (out of the several I posted. I guess these two are the only ones you read). It was an example of the impression that those QBs are dumb. The vibe I am getting from you and KJ is that just because someone on bleacher report talks about the perception that some QBs are not intelligent they simply don't count. The bleacher report articles are people responded to or wrote about the perception of these QBs. Perhaps you guys just don't have the ability to understand that these two were talking about a pre-existing perception and not making the observation itself.

I also am beginning to feel that maybe you have the same problem the black QBs have. You simply don't have the ability to understand the difference between someone saying you have to re-learn or retrain and questioning whether you have the ability to learn. It isn't your fault you can't comprehend it. You don't have that level of intellectualism.

If you think it is the same just continue through your blissful life of no racial bias and enjoy it. It is just another luxury us white people have over other races. We can just think to ourselves "Since I don't think that way it clearly doesn't exist." Meanwhile guys running pro-systems and have a 3.0 gpa and have the same wonderlic score as Peyton Manning have their ability to even call plays questioned (BTW in the fun you guys had in regards to the bleacher report articles no one has been able to produce a white QB with a similar resume having his ability to even call plays questioned) Jimmy Clausen who had less football experience, a losing record, and or lower wonderlic score was roundly praised for his tremendous football IQ.

Ignorance is bliss. But the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

know how I know you can't read well?? Racial bias =/= racist. Do you not have the ability to comprehend that??

Of course not everyone thinks that way. Of course not everybody thinks Cam is a dumb thug Jamarcus Russell redux either.

But if you go to profootballtalk and look at the comments about Cam Newton or Warren Moon. On profootballtalk you can give a thumbs up or thumbs down.

The comments that say Warren Moon is actually the racist is about 90% thumbsup. The posts that question Cam's intelligence is about 75% thumbsup.

Now tell me that the commenters don't matter because they are all crazy people because only crazy people post in these comments. Still it is a landslide and they are the only ones talking apparently smh

One last thing Scot. You do realize that when basketball scouts consistently say white basketball players "have a good court savvy, hustles on every play,has a high basketball IQ, and lacks athleticism, etc." That is also a form of racial bias.

Some people forget that all races are susceptible to racial biases. White people may say things that are racially biased about other white people black people can say things that are racially biased about black people.

Racial biases are generally formed from stereotypes and are usually subconscious and often (especially in athletics) can effect any scout no matter their race or the player they are scouting's race. And it doesn't automatically qualify the person who did it as a racist.

Know how I know that you know you've lost the argument? :thumbsup:

The reason that both KJ and I scoffed at the Bleacher Report articles is that they were written by an average fan, essentially someone with no more actual connection to the game than any of us.

You found a fan who said something stupid. Congratulations. I can also find you fans who were dumb enough to believe that Jake Delhomme and/or Marty Hurney were married to Jerry Richardson's daughter. Finding a dumb who says something dumb is about as big an accomplishment as finding a reality show that stinks, and it adds zero credibility to your argument.

And back again to the tired old "racism and racial biases exist" bit. That's the second dumbest argument used on the board these days (behind only "you guys don't care about winning"). Nobody has argued that these things don't exist. What we have argued against is the constant "crying wolf" of claiming racism is hiding behind every negative comment about Newton. That's intellectual laziness at its finest.

You want to show some actual "ability to comprehend"? Try taking part in a debate without playing the race card. Then maybe you'll earn some respect. Every time any of you guys go that route, you accomplish nothing but to make yourselves look bad and drag the whole conversation into the gutter.

[Mr. Scot]

Of course you can site specific examples. I could do the same and we could continue this back-and-for weeks. That won't accomplish anything. We are talking about something subtle, not something that jumps up and smacks you in the face.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the difference between targeted accusations re: racism and an overall cultural or racial bias. All this talk of personal attacks and questioning individual's motivations misses the point by a country mile.

The question of having an overall higher standard or threshold for acceptance for black QB's is no different than the hurdles faced in the past for black coaches and GM's. To pretend this hasn't existed is in fact naive. :yesnod:

By all means, show me where it's been said that such biases never existed.

What I object to is the constant practice of crying racism every time someone has a criticism or a concern about Newton.

That practice is as ignorant as the very racism you claim to decry.

If you want to show me that someone is racist or has a racial bias, you better have more evidence than just that they have a negative opinion about Cam Newton, because that by itself proves nothing.

And frankly, I find it extremely disappointing that people are willing to engage in that kind of character assassination with their only justification being a difference of opinion over how good a quarterback some guy is. That says a lot more negative stuff about the person resorting to that tactic than it does the person on the receiving end of it.

You want to call a guy a racist or say he's engaging in racist thinking? Show me more than a difference of opinion about Cam Newton as evidence or you're just making yourself look like an idiot.

[Mr. Scot]

They certainly do. Hell, the "idea" out in the general population that Cam Newton is dumb is in no small part motivated by some of that. The things some people say about him, or about black QBs in general, are more than a bit silly. And as you said, by no means is it limited to white people stereotyping black people. Hell, there's the McNabb thread in which a black boxer says McNabb isn't black enough. There's unreasonable bullpoo thrown all over, prejudiced stuff that has no place in sports but it will be there because unfortunately bias is a part of our society.

My issue with the "race stuff" is that some posters in the past have used "racial bias" as a way to basically dismiss some posters who they disagree with, or ideas they disagree with. So even though I know it exists I don't mention it actively unless it's obvious (aka that one poster months back who said not to draft Cam because black QBs suck in the NFL... kinda obvious that criticism was based on race:P)

TBH, Newton has brought a fair amount of reasonable criticism on himself. His past has brought him question marks among those of us who do not have the resources to investigate it to the depth the Panthers have. I trust their judgment but I'm not going to pretend the stupid poo he did didn't happen(not saying you do Tee but some around here seem to). The "Entertainer and icon" comments made people question his dedication. The offense he came from, the limited time he spent in D1, made some people wonder about his transition.

At the same time, throughout the process he has continually put himself out there as far as his work and his development and I really can only give him props for that. It may not guarantee success but it certainly means he is on the right path, and I'm excited to see him enter a new chapter in his life.

Bingo :thumbsup:

[SmAsHmoUTh!!!]

21 on the wonderlic is not that bad of a score....Vince Young only got 7 on it

[chef17]

Throwing a laptop out a window after the cops have the serial number is a reason to question someone's intelligence.

[Mr. Scot]

Throwing a laptop out a window after the cops have the serial number is a reason to question someone's intelligence.

You raci...oh wait :sosp:

[chef17]

You raci...oh wait :sosp:

I know this was coming :eek:

Seriously, I understand people make stupid decisions, we are just human. However, if someone makes a stupid decision, how is that not a reason to question their intelligence? If you don't question someones intelligence based on the decisions they make, they what exactly are you supposed to use to question their intelligence?

[Mr. Scot]

I know this was coming :eek:

Seriously, I understand people make stupid decisions, we are just human. However, if someone makes a stupid decision, how is that not a reason to question their intelligence? If you don't question someones intelligence based on the decisions they make, they what exactly are you supposed to use to question their intelligence?

Pretty much.

Folks on here want to get offended about it, but it's not like it really matters.

As I said a long time ago, fair or not, people are going to question his intelligence because of those actions (and others).

Likewise, some people are going to call him dumb for no other reason than that he plays for a team other than their favorite.

On both, my base feeling is "big deal".

When the time comes, he'll either show it on the field or he won't. Till then, who really gives a flying crap what the general public has to say about it?

(especially opposing fans)

People made fun of Najeh Davenport for taking a dump in someone's closet, and legitimately so, but it's not like that had any real effect on his career.

[Bj-Monster23]

Throwing a laptop out a window after the cops have the serial number is a reason to question someone's intelligence.

Naw it dont.But it could also mean he panic because he bought a stolen laptop.Instead of talking with the campus police about it, he threw it out the dorm window. To me it sounds like an immaturity issue.

[MHS831]

Bottom line: There are some people on here who see the relationship between QB and intelligence in the NFL and Cam scares them. They value intelligence in other areas too, so they have given it thought. Then there are the people who think the answer to education reform is to discredit the educated--it is easier than becoming educated. The educated--the only people able to see true ignorance--are attacked as elitists, racists, ignorant, etc. by those who think others do not see their stupidity, because ironically, it would take intelligence to realize that you are not fooling anyone. That is why ignorance is bliss, and why personal attacks are launched when wit is in short supply. Bad grammar is a sign of ignorance, not racism. Quit being ignorant.

[SorthNarolina]

Pretty much.

Folks on here want to get offended about it, but it's not like it really matters.

As I said a long time ago, fair or not, people are going to question his intelligence because of those actions (and others).

Likewise, some people are going to call him dumb for no other reason than that he plays for a team other than their favorite.

On both, my base feeling is "big deal".

When the time comes, he'll either show it on the field or he won't. Till then, who really gives a flying crap what the general public has to say about it?

(especially opposing fans)

People made fun of Najeh Davenport for taking a dump in someone's closet, and legitimately so, but it's not like that had any real effect on his career.

hahahahaha that's great who could fault the guy for that

[teeray]

Know how I know that you know you've lost the argument? :thumbsup:

The reason that both KJ and I scoffed at the Bleacher Report articles is that they were written by an average fan, essentially someone with no more actual connection to the game than any of us.

You found a fan who said something stupid. Congratulations. I can also find you fans who were dumb enough to believe that Jake Delhomme and/or Marty Hurney were married to Jerry Richardson's daughter. Finding a dumb who says something dumb is about as big an accomplishment as finding a reality show that stinks, and it adds zero credibility to your argument.

And back again to the tired old "racism and racial biases exist" bit. That's the second dumbest argument used on the board these days (behind only "you guys don't care about winning"). Nobody has argued that these things don't exist. What we have argued against is the constant "crying wolf" of claiming racism is hiding behind every negative comment about Newton. That's intellectual laziness at its finest.

You want to show some actual "ability to comprehend"? Try taking part in a debate without playing the race card. Then maybe you'll earn some respect. Every time any of you guys go that route, you accomplish nothing but to make yourselves look bad and drag the whole conversation into the gutter.

You know how I know you don't read anything?? The fan didn't say anything stupid. He was giving advice to Russell to help with the perception that he isn't intelligent. Again like many of these QBs we are talking about I am just not sure you have the ability to comprehend what I was illustrating. Let me say it again, the "stupid" fan is talking about the pre-existing perception of Russell, not making the observation itself.

Since there are crazy fans everywhere please direct me to the article (even if it is on bleacher report) that has questioned Quinn's intelligence,or Leinart's, or Alex Smith's. If these are just dumb fans find me some that say these things about the white QBs. Should be pretty easy I suppose.

And know how I know you have no idea what playing the race card means?? I haven't played the race card once. All I have said is that questioning racial bias in criticisms of a black QB is fair and shouldn't be dismissed as playing the race card. I haven't accused anyone of being racist.

Why did people question Jason Campbell's ability to call his own plays?? Why was Josh Freeman's ability to read an NFL defense a big question mark?? Every discernible evidence on those two guys suggest they are very, very intelligent.

Why has a SEC Academic Honor roll student get his intelligence questioned to the point that a "stupid" fan wrote about it on bleacher report??

Here is where you are losing. I don't know the answer to these questions and unlike some people on here like yourself I wouldn't pretend to know, that is why the question is raised and IMO valid.

I just find it odd that 10 of the past 11 black QBs taken in the first round has had their intelligence questioned in some manner. Even ones with high GPA, high wonderlic scores, and came from pro offenses. Meanwhile a white QB with worse academic credentials and football experience get praised for having a "high football IQ." Do you not find that odd??

These are the questions no one has sufficiently answered. Seems like you are too caught up in what website an article was on so you can ignore the larger question; why was the article even written?

But I think the bigger questions have become, why are you so defensive about the possibility of racial bias in scouting of black QBs?? And how do you know that racial bias isn't a factor in some of these scouting reports??

I'll summarize in one question; since you have no idea what anyone else's biases are or how their brain works, do you even care if you are wrong Scot??

[King Taharqa]

Mr scot gets defensive because he buys into the racial bias and cares more about ignorant people being called racist than actual racism. He shortchanges black qbs as less intelligent than whites no matter how good they are. By his own admission he grew up in a household where racism was prevelant. Scot put everything into "scaring" us from believing in Cam as our draft pick. I remember him saying early in this process anybody who thinks Cam was in consideration here was "stupid". Scot needs to expand his worldview to become a better person and fan.

*awaits Scot to overplay his IQ to potray himself as elite and the most logical*