Are we abandoning the 4-3 already?? (conspiracy theory)

[teeray]

I will say right off the bat that this is unlikely but some of the moves the last several days got my imagination flowing a little bit so here are my reasons for suggesting this:

Our defense has been dreadful in the preseason. Maybe we haven't shown all of our packages and blitzes, plus Beason has been out, but that isn't a good enough reason to explain away the obvious troubles our defense has had these last 3 games. And I am also sure that it is very troubling and frustrating for a defensive minded coach like Ron Rivera.

The signing of Kentwan Balmer. Many speculated when this happened that he was a wash out in the 3-4 and would come to Carolina and see if he could flourish in a 4-3. However, maybe it was because they were looking for someone with some talent that had experience playing DT in a 3-4. It was also peculiar that he was waved within a week for performance issues if he was having to relearn the 4-3 principles. Of course there could have been other issues that we aren't aware of so who knows why he was released so quickly.

The cutting of Everette Brown. He has clearly underperformed to this point but to cut him this soon after surrendering a 1st round pick still seemed out of place. It is doubtful that Brown becomes the type of player that many though he would when we drafted him. But if he is to ever become a serviceable defensive end it will be as a speed rusher on the end of a 4-3 defense it will not be in a 3-4 defense. He is already undersized and to be on the line in a 3-4 the ends need to be a lot bigger and stronger than Everette Brown. And he doesn't appear to have the speed or lateral movement to move outside in the 3-4. So perhaps he got cut because it became clear he wasn't going to pan out, or maybe he got cut because there wasn't a role for him in the defense we were going to transition to.

The cutting of 3 defensive tackles. Perhaps our thinnest position and we cut half the players at that position leaving us with 3 players there? Why? Now we have 4 with the signing of Marcus Harrison who is not the type of DT you want just an injury away from playing major minutes. In a 4-3 he would essentially be third string on the depth chart. In a 3-4 he would be fourth which is about where you would expect a guy like him to be. He also has the ideal size I believe for the position at 6-3 315.

Keeping 8 linebackers. Some have speculated it is because we are shopping Conner. And that very well could be true because it makes little sense keeping 8 linebackers in a 4-3 with so many other positions so thin. But being in a 3-4 suddenly it does make a lot of sense. You always want to make sure you have plenty of depth at LB but 8 linebackers in a 4-3 seems like overkill. The Steelers for example have 9 linebackers right now on their roster and only three DTs. The Jaguars who run a 4-3 have 5 linebackers and 6 DTs. We have 8 linebackers and 4 DTs. This numbers game is far from an exact science because the Colts have only 4 DTs and 7 LBs and I believe they still run a 4-3.

Rivera experienced great success in San Diego with the 3-4. For any defense coach it has to be frustrating to go from the #1 defense in the NFL to the product we have produced thus far in the preseason. Perhaps he feels like the best way to make this defense successful in the shortest amount of time is to make this switch. After all he turned around San Diego's defense very, very quickly by doing so.

I realize he ran a 4-3 at every other stop he has been to but you can't argue the success he had last year in the 3-4. I am not familiar with his tenure at San Diego (other than stats)so perhaps one of you guys can tell me (perhaps TRD since he lives there) whether the decision to run the 3-4 in San Diego was that of Rivera or Norv Turner.

Again it is probably just my imagination running away with me as I was trying to make sense of some of the moves over the last several days. I also understand that it incredibly difficult and probably counter productive to try to transition at this point. It would be more likely that if a change like this took place it would be in the off-season.

But then again when you see some of the moves they have made the last several days and try to make sense of them and couple that with our big time troubles on defense to this point..... who knows. Stranger things have happened.

[Mr. Scot]

We have a DC that's never worked with a 3-4 base system.

[Ivan The Awesome]

Oh teeray, you slay me.

[rayzor]

yes...your imagination is running away with you.

the answer is no.

[teeray]

We have a DC that's never worked with a 3-4 base system.

True. Neither had Ron Rivera when he went to San Diego. How did that work out??

[rayzor]

We have a DC that's never worked with a 3-4 base system.

and a HC that until the last couple years had never worked with a 3-4 base either and who had tons of success in a 4-3.

we may see some, but we aren't going to be abandoning it. we don't have the right parts for a base 3-4.

[teeray]

yes...your imagination is running away with you.

the answer is no.

You are probably right. But some of the moves made don't make a lot of sense if we are staying pat. Wouldn't you agree?

Of course we may not be done yet. Just for fun. I don't take it too seriously but when I was thinking about why we made some of the moves we did I started thinking about it.

[teeray]

and a HC that until the last couple years had never worked with a 3-4 base either and who had tons of success in a 4-3.

we may see some, but we aren't going to be abandoning it. we don't have the right parts for a base 3-4.

Judging from the preseason it doesn't seem we have the right parts for a 4-3 either :)

[PantherPhann89]

Well, one things for sure...We've got to change something on Defense. A DT is a big help, but it looks like our scheme through the preseason was just basic. Although I think we got a different look in gm 1. I don't see us playing the same way in the regular season. I think that we will be much more aggressive with our LB's. A 3-4 with 4-3 looks...

[frash.exe]

True. Neither had Ron Rivera when he went to San Diego. How did that work out??

ron had been an assistant for over a year in their 3-4 before he was promoted, and still there was a bit of an adjustment period.

now i feel like the coaching staff knows there's going to be a transition period as our personnel gets used to the system but the quickest road to get to the level we want it to be is to stick with the system we've been integrating for the entire year

The cutting of Everette Brown. He has clearly underperformed to this point but to cut him this soon after surrendering a 1st round pick still seemed out of place. It is doubtful that Brown becomes the type of player that many though he would when we drafted him. But if he is to ever become a serviceable defensive end it will be as a speed rusher on the end of a 4-3 defense it will not be in a 3-4 defense. He is already undersized and to be on the line in a 3-4 the ends need to be a lot bigger and stronger than Everette Brown. And he doesn't appear to have the speed or lateral movement to move outside in the 3-4. So perhaps he got cut because it became clear he wasn't going to pan out, or maybe he got cut because there wasn't a role for him in the defense we were going to transition to.

everette brown was projected to be a 3-4 OLB when he came out of school so if it was really the coaching staff's intent to go 3-4 they would've moved him to see if he would be a better fit behind the defensive line

[DoWorkBson]

Great plan. Probably just need to lose Beason Davis and Anderson since they aren't exactly ideal for a 3-4..... Let's do it!!!!!!! CAN'T WAIT!

[teeray]

ron had been an assistant for over a year in their 3-4 before he was promoted, and still there was a bit of an adjustment period.

now i feel like the coaching staff knows there's going to be a transition period as our personnel gets used to the system but the quickest road to get to the level we want it to be is to stick with the system we've been integrating for the entire year

everette brown was projected to be a 3-4 OLB when he came out of school so if it was really the coaching staff's intent to go 3-4 they would've moved him to see if he would be a better fit behind the defensive line

In Darinn Gant voice: Well if the daggum press were allowed into practice we could tell you if they did try some in practice.

Plus I doubt they really care where he was projected coming out of college because he has shown on the field in the NFL the last two years that he doesn't possess the tools to move outside.

Not shooting down your logic just playing devil's advocate.

[Kurb]

I will say right off the bat that this is unlikely but some of the moves the last several days got my imagination flowing a little bit so here are my reasons for suggesting this:

Our defense has been dreadful in the preseason. Maybe we haven't shown all of our packages and blitzes, plus Beason has been out, but that isn't a good enough reason to explain away the obvious troubles our defense has had these last 3 games. And I am also sure that it is very troubling and frustrating for a defensive minded coach like Ron Rivera.

The signing of Kentwan Balmer. Many speculated when this happened that he was a wash out in the 3-4 and would come to Carolina and see if he could flourish in a 4-3. However, maybe it was because they were looking for someone with some talent that had experience playing DT in a 3-4. It was also peculiar that he was waved within a week for performance issues if he was having to relearn the 4-3 principles. Of course there could have been other issues that we aren't aware of so who knows why he was released so quickly.

The cutting of Everette Brown. He has clearly underperformed to this point but to cut him this soon after surrendering a 1st round pick still seemed out of place. It is doubtful that Brown becomes the type of player that many though he would when we drafted him. But if he is to ever become a serviceable defensive end it will be as a speed rusher on the end of a 4-3 defense it will not be in a 3-4 defense. He is already undersized and to be on the line in a 3-4 the ends need to be a lot bigger and stronger than Everette Brown. And he doesn't appear to have the speed or lateral movement to move outside in the 3-4. So perhaps he got cut because it became clear he wasn't going to pan out, or maybe he got cut because there wasn't a role for him in the defense we were going to transition to.

The cutting of 3 defensive tackles. Perhaps our thinnest position and we cut half the players at that position leaving us with 3 players there? Why? Now we have 4 with the signing of Marcus Harrison who is not the type of DT you want just an injury away from playing major minutes. In a 4-3 he would essentially be third string on the depth chart. In a 3-4 he would be fourth which is about where you would expect a guy like him to be. He also has the ideal size I believe for the position at 6-3 315.

Keeping 8 linebackers. Some have speculated it is because we are shopping Conner. And that very well could be true because it makes little sense keeping 8 linebackers in a 4-3 with so many other positions so thin. But being in a 3-4 suddenly it does make a lot of sense. You always want to make sure you have plenty of depth at LB but 8 linebackers in a 4-3 seems like overkill. The Steelers for example have 9 linebackers right now on their roster and only three DTs. The Jaguars who run a 4-3 have 5 linebackers and 6 DTs. We have 8 linebackers and 4 DTs. This numbers game is far from an exact science because the Colts have only 4 DTs and 7 LBs and I believe they still run a 4-3.

Rivera experienced great success in San Diego with the 3-4. For any defense coach it has to be frustrating to go from the #1 defense in the NFL to the product we have produced thus far in the preseason. Perhaps he feels like the best way to make this defense successful in the shortest amount of time is to make this switch. After all he turned around San Diego's defense very, very quickly by doing so.

I realize he ran a 4-3 at every other stop he has been to but you can't argue the success he had last year in the 3-4. I am not familiar with his tenure at San Diego (other than stats)so perhaps one of you guys can tell me (perhaps TRD since he lives there) whether the decision to run the 3-4 in San Diego was that of Rivera or Norv Turner.

Again it is probably just my imagination running away with me as I was trying to make sense of some of the moves over the last several days. I also understand that it incredibly difficult and probably counter productive to try to transition at this point. It would be more likely that if a change like this took place it would be in the off-season.

But then again when you see some of the moves they have made the last several days and try to make sense of them and couple that with our big time troubles on defense to this point..... who knows. Stranger things have happened.

Being Zod asked everyone to be nice.

Kurb simply says. "No little teeray all this is wrong"

No scurry off and play with your toys.

[frash.exe]

also the packers defense has looked bad this preseason. it doesn't mean they're going to look terrible during the regular season as well. conversely the Texans defense has been ranking top ten.

you guys really make a big deal about this bad preseason defense thing