Record under GM Marty Hurney by the numbers

[mav1234]

yeah I agree... I do think that if we get to a spot where JR thinks we are "one piece away" we may see a big signing.

[frash.exe]

yeah I agree... I do think that if we get to a spot where JR thinks we are "one piece away" we may see a big signing.

yea, and then, it could either be a guy people here think is worth it or someone who overachieved in their contract year that we don't want

Free Agency is a valuable resource for starters if you use it properly. That's why it's there.

[Cyberjag]

no, i'd much rather just get you to answer the question than stop dodging it and change the subject, than put you on ignore, which you constantly resort to every discussion we have when you don't have answers left. why did you feel the philly comment was appropriate?

On this board, there are usually a lot of comments made about how we need to go after every high profile free agent that comes available. In Philadelphia, they got what was by far considered by most to be the best free agent class. And they're struggling. I felt it was appropriate to point that out as a way to suggest that just bringing in talent isn't enough to win. I apologize for not making the point more clear, I felt that most posters here would get what I was going for, and clearly I was wrong in that assumption.

I am also sorry that you felt I was dodging the question. It was not my intent to do so, it just didn't occur to me that someone would miss what I felt was such an obvious point. Obviously, I didn't make the point well enough; I certainly didn't make it to your standards. Have I answered the question posed to your satisfaction now?

And I'm not trying to change the subject here, although typically in threads this long there are many asides. Hurney assembles the talent, and he chooses to do so through the draft. His coach has stated that as a preference, the organization has said that is a goal as well, all the way to the top. It is not in the Panthers' character to build in free agency, they build through the draft. This is consistent.

They do bring in outside talent, as evidenced by Shockey, Olsen, and Edwards this year. It's just not common. They also don't make a practice of announcing who they are going after, or who they went after and failed to get.

So now let me ask you, do you disagree with those two paragraphs? There's a point there that I think is pretty plain, do you see it? I get that you may disagree, you may think I'm just stupidly wrong, but do you find the point identifiable and easy to understand?

[KillerKat]

Marty Hurney assembles the roster and works the cap. It's up to the coaching staff to get them to play to the best of their abilities, work as a team, and execute on the field. You could fire him today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference in how we finished our season, nor would it really have a ton of impact next year.

Maybe we should have done like Philadelphia, and signed every high-profile free agent we could. How's that working out for them? If we had, would it really have made a difference in our record, given how we've lost games? Would you all still be calling for Hurney's head anyway?

Hurney's made some mistakes, but on balance he's done a pretty good job in Carolina. And if you think he's the problem with this team, then I'm curious what GM would have met your standard for excellence.

On the other hand, he is the one who hired Fox, and then Rivera...

Your Philly example is ignorant and small minded.

No one is suggesting we go all out and just sign every FA we can get like Philly. That's just silly to suggest that. We needed FAs at key positions specifically on defense in which Hurney refused to. DT for example. You can point to Edwards, but after he got hurt we did nothing but sign scrubs that Hurney for some reason thinks will change into a good player when really they have been trash their whole career. We also could've used good starting caliber CB. Rogers' deal with SF wasn't that big and we didn't offer him anything. We could've done more at RG as well than what we did. Hangman is good depth but he shouldn't be starting.

And what about a return man? There's these small fixes that could be huge for our team but Hurney just refuses to make those fixes.

And this is just a small thing on a long list of problems Hurney has.

[KillerKat]

Here you go. So that I don't have to repeat myself..

What is the justification of keeping Hurney? Otah, Brown, AE all picks we gave up picks for are now busts.

From the past 5 drafts (too early to tell for 2011):

Out of the 8 picks in 2006 only DWill and Anderson are here

Out of the 8 picks in 2007 only Beason, Kalil, and C.Johnson are here

2008 wasn't that spectacular. Otah is a bust. Barnidge and Bernadeau may not be here next season. Taylor is gone. Hayden is gone (thank God!).

Almost the entire 2009 draft is no longer on the team. Brown, Irvin, Fiametta, D.Robinson gone. Goodson may not be here next season. Maybe the samething for Martin next year.

The 2010 draft is heading that way too. Jimmy Clausen, a wasted pick. AE doesn't look like he'll be here next season. Pike is gone. McClain is gone. Stanford might not be here next season. Norwood may be out next season too.

Then you take into account the decision to give DWill a big contract when our new scheme doesn't rely on the RBs that much. Should've shopped him around. 4 mil a year to a weaker kicker as well? Ignoring the DT position after Ron Edwards went down. Not addressing a starting CB. That's just this season. Not to mention the Delhomme and Peppers f**k ups.

I just don't see the reason for keeping him around any longer.

Also, remember he wanted to actually trade up to grab Clausen but then he didn't have to? How big of a mistake would that have been?

Him being good at the draft is a big fat MYTH

[KillerKat]

Hurney: Ignoring key FAs that could help the team while giving huge contracts to players that have run their course and trading away picks since 2002.

[frash.exe]

On this board, there are usually a lot of comments made about how we need to go after every high profile free agent that comes available. In Philadelphia, they got what was by far considered by most to be the best free agent class. And they're struggling. I felt it was appropriate to point that out as a way to suggest that just bringing in talent isn't enough to win. I apologize for not making the point more clear, I felt that most posters here would get what I was going for, and clearly I was wrong in that assumption.

so you thought that there was an overwhelming group of guys on here that wanted us to sign like 9 of the top free agents from other teams.

this is a forum that has thousands of members. I'm pretty sure it was more like one guy wanted 1-3 good FAs and another guy wanted 1-3 different FAs. You're kind of broad brushing this. Just because one guy proposed we sign Babin, and another guy proposed we sign Asomugha, and another person proposed we sign Cofield, doesn't mean everybody thought we should sign all 3. Yes there were people out there that thought that but there are also people out there that think the world is going to end next December.

I am also sorry that you felt I was dodging the question. It was not my intent to do so, it just didn't occur to me that someone would miss what I felt was such an obvious point. Obviously, I didn't make the point well enough; I certainly didn't make it to your standards. Have I answered the question posed to your satisfaction now?

The point isn't that I don't understand what you're trying to say, I do, and it's a terrible point.

They do bring in outside talent, as evidenced by Shockey, Olsen, and Edwards this year. It's just not common. They also don't make a practice of announcing who they are going after, or who they went after and failed to get.

So now let me ask you, do you disagree with those two paragraphs? There's a point there that I think is pretty plain, do you see it? I get that you may disagree, you may think I'm just stupidly wrong, but do you find the point identifiable and easy to understand?

Um, I kinda already was aware of this. I'm not asking why they do it, and you're answer to what i'm not asking is basically "they do this because they do it". I know what they're trying to do, I know it isn't working and they should tweak it a bit.

And I'm not trying to change the subject here, although typically in threads this long there are many asides. Hurney assembles the talent, and he chooses to do so through the draft. His coach has stated that as a preference, the organization has said that is a goal as well, all the way to the top. It is not in the Panthers' character to build in free agency, they build through the draft. This is consistent.

Our current strategy, consistent as it may be, isn't putting a winning team on the field. And the reason is pretty clear when we play an undersized late round pick corner who at times gets completely abused and our two rookie DTs are having trouble containing their gap assignments, and also reserve starting spots for IR stalwarts. And that is a huge problem we have. No other team in the NFL constantly tolerates injuries to starters as much as we do.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I take over as GM.

I don't add any significant outside free agents.

Matt Kalil seems to be the overwhelmingly obvious and easy choice so I pick him with our 2nd-4th overall pick and he turns out to be a good player.

I then proceed to bomb on every other pick. Maybe I add one more mediocre backup quality player but that's it.

So that's what I give you for the entire offseason. One good player with a high obvious pick and not much else. Basically the same team and most likely another losing season. Am I a good GM? You want to fight to keep me around? Now what exactly do you guys expect Hurney to give you?

[mav1234]

Also, remember he wanted to actually trade up to grab Clausen but then he didn't have to? How big of a mistake would that have been?

We have no idea because we don't know what he would have traded, but we do know what he wasn't going to trade, which was our first rounder this year. It is preposterous to fault him for a trade that didn't happen when we don't know any of the details save what he wouldn't give up.

[KillerKat]

That's the only thing you pick out? Anyway, the point of that sentence was about the mere thought of trading up to get Clausen.

[Kevin Greene]

I take over as GM.

I don't add any significant outside free agents.

Matt Kalil seems to be the overwhelmingly obvious and easy choice so I pick him with our 2nd-4th overall pick and he turns out to be a good player.

I then proceed to bomb on every other pick. Maybe I add one more mediocre backup quality player but that's it.

So that's what I give you for the entire offseason. One good player with a high obvious pick and not much else. Basically the same team and most likely another losing season. Am I a good GM? You want to fight to keep me around? Now what exactly do you guys expect Hurney to give you?

But wait, can you have Julius Peppers take you for $35 million over 2 years as your Franchise Tag designee completely handcuffing the entire organization?

Ahah! I thought not.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Peppers is gone but Hurney still finds a way to rape our cap keeping a 2-14 team together. At this point it's almost like it's part of the plan to be in cap hell every year so we can't add any FAs even if we wanted to.

[mav1234]

That's the only thing you pick out? Anyway, the point of that sentence was about the mere thought of trading up to get Clausen.

I think it's insane that you want to fault him for something he didn't do. Frankly I think where we took Clausen was fine given the situation. had we traded up it might not have been but we didn't.

As to the rest of it, I just think Hurney's basically been given a blank slate and the coming years will define what ends up happening to him. The thing is, Fox was heavily involved in the draft day decisions before 2010.

[Kevin Greene]

As to the rest of it, I just think Hurney's basically been given a blank slate and the coming years will define what ends up happening to him. The thing is, Fox was heavily involved in the draft day decisions before 2010.

Probably most Panther fans would say Hurney, or maybe JR should have pulled that plug 2 or 3 years prior.