Owning what you write

[panthers55]

Matt Moore is a better passer than Cam Newton?

Is that what you're saying?

If we are talking about just passing stats there a bunch of quarterbacks with more yards, a better passing rating, etc. It really depends on what parameter you are comparing him to others. But Newton is not just a passer but the new breed of quarterback who can pass and run as well. You have to look at how he moves the chains and how well we score as a function of the offense he runs.

Matt Moore did pretty well this year considering last year. If by better would I pick Moore over Newton if I had to choose one to start for me next year, not a chance. Moore is pretty much as good as he is going to get. Newton hasn't even scratched the surface.

Truth is you always want to try and argue a single point in isolation rather than the bigger picture. Passer rating is one factor not the whole issue. I didn't present it in isolation, why would you??

[panthers55]

Undrafted scrub on his 3rd team in 5 years who only leads teams to #1 picks and "poos the bed" when pressure is on is a better passer than Gods Gift to football, #1 overall pick, Heisman trophy winning, two time national champion, best tasting dick in the south, best pure passer coming out of college ever, top 5 elite QB already, superhuman athlete that is Cameron Newton?

typical TRD response. First takes a single point from a whole discussion and then finds a contradictory cicumstance which he then runs with making over the top comments. By this he fails to engage in a meaningful discussion when crude obnoxious comments serve as well. Then he wonders why he has a reputation as a troll.

[TheRealDeal]

by cam's fifth year in the league i expect him to make matt moore, solid as he is, look like a piss stain.

Why is years more important than attempts? Starts? Etc?

Cam has 70% the attempts Moore does so his development should be pretty close to Moores

[Marguide]

Obviously some of TRD's posts were meant to get responses out of people, but he has repeatedly given Cam credit so I just don't understand why people act like he hates Cam or something.

Undrafted scrub on his 3rd team in 5 years who only leads teams to #1 picks and "poos the bed" when pressure is on is a better passer than Gods Gift to football, #1 overall pick, Heisman trophy winning, two time national champion, best tasting dick in the south, best pure passer coming out of college ever, top 5 elite QB already, superhuman athlete that is Cameron Newton?

Yeah Mav, I can't imagine why people would think TRD hates Cam Newton. :rolleyes:

[mav1234]

Yeah Mav, I can't imagine why people would think TRD hates Cam Newton. :rolleyes:

yet he calls Matt Moore an "undrafted scrub" who poos the bed, etc etc, but somehow everyone thinks he's in love with Matt Moore? Hmm.

[mav1234]

Yeah Mav, I can't imagine why people would think TRD hates Cam Newton. :rolleyes:

yet he calls Matt Moore an "undrafted scrub" who poos the bed, etc etc, but somehow everyone thinks he's in love with Matt Moore? Hmm.

His post was more about what he thinks of huddlers than what he thinks of Cam, but I don't blame people for *that* post annoying them :P

Percentage of passes without context such as how many passes were attempted can provide very skewed results. For example is you attempt 1 pass of over 40 yards and complete it you are 100%. If you attempt 100 and complete 50 of them, which one is better??

What are the actual numbers?

I agree with this which was my point entirely. But since you asked and didn't want to check yourself, here are some of Cam's and Dalton's numbers.

Cam. 517 attempts:

Behind LoS: 104 attempts, 85.6 comp%, 6.88 YPA, 20.11% of his throws.

1-10 yards of LoS: 189 attempts,64% comp, 5.46 YPA, 36.55% of his throws

11-20 yards: 142 attempts, 50% comp, 8.75 YPA 27.47% of his throws

21-30 yards: 56 attempts, 39.3% comp, 12.88 YPA, 10.8% of his throws

31-40 yards: 15 attempts, 26.7% comp, 11.87 YPA, 2.9% of his throws

41+ yards: 10 attempts, 30% comp, 16.3 YPA, 1.9% of his throws

Dalton, 516 attempts:

Behind LoS: 92 attempts, 76.1% comp, 4.91 YPA, 17% of his throws

1-10 yards: 265 attempts, 60.4% comp, 4.56 YPA, 51% of his throws

11-20 yards: 102 attempts, 45.1% comp, 8.86 YPA, 19% of his throws

21-30 yards: 32 attempts, 40.6% comp, 11.28 YPA, 6.2% of his throws

31-40 yards: 18 attempts, 44.4% comp, 18.83 YPA, 3.5%

41+ yards: 6 attempts, 50% comp, 22.33 YPA, 1.2% of his throws

rounding may be weird, no excel on this computer so I was doing some stuff in windows calc, lol.

so the idea that *all* Dalton did was dink and dunk really isn't accurate, he actually went deep at times, and was effective when he did, but he was running quite a different offense from Cam so a straight comparison is kinda silly in this regard. Dalton was not a check down king, he ran a west coast offense. just a very different sort of offense.

edit: for comparison with a rookie who did mostly dink and dunk his rookie year (though he can do more IMO), Bradford threw 19% of his passes behind the LoS, 55% within 10 yards, 18.5% between 11 and 20, 3.7% 21-30, 2% 31-40, and .8% 41+.

IMO Dalton showed more of an ability to stretch the field than Bradford did. Perhaps that was the presence of AJ Green; but if we get into that can of worms it gets way more complicated, lol

[mav1234]

As a NFL Game Rewind subscriber, I have.

Cut out the rest because really it is unrelated to what I am curious about.

Since you have seen more of Andy Dalton than I have, do you really think that "all he does is dink and dunk for ten yards or less"?

I'm curious, because every game I've seen him in, he certainly runs a west coast offense, but there are are number of vertical plays a game where he is clearly able to stretch the field should the defense give him that option. But you have apparently seen him play more than I have, so I'm curious if that was not the norm.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Why is years more important than attempts? Starts? Etc?

Cam has 70% the attempts Moore does so his development should be pretty close to Moores

are you seriously breaking down the experience of five years in the NFL-training camps, OTAs, being in an NFL conditioning program, riding the bench behind veterans, learning and digesting a complicated pro offense, the various other issues and challenges that come with being a professional at the most iconic position in American sports-to a matter of pass attempts and starts?

let's think about it this way: would you expect Cam Newton in week 3 of his rookie season to be as developed as Aaron Rodgers was at the start of the 2008 season-his fourth as a pro? Rodgers had 59 attempts in regular season play under his belt when he entered his first full season as a starter, after all. Cam Newton hit that mark probably sometime before the monsoon against Jacksonville-he entered with 52 pass attempts as a pro.

if guy A has been through what i just described and guy B was throwing footballs for scouts in a pair of sweat pants on a practice field this time last year, then i believe you're being dishonest if you're really trying to say you think they should be at the same place. seriously cam newton could have gotten in trouble if a booster bought him a steak a calendar year and some change ago.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

also i expect cam newton to look much better than matt moore in year five because he has physical tools that moore doesn't and his ceiling is higher for that reason. i just used the five year figure as a common value to keep things from becoming too complicated.

of course that's impossible to predict and blah blah blah

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

i also used the five year figure to avoid complicating things. it doesn't have any particular significance.

[(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻]

As a NFL Game Rewind subscriber, I have. Cam and Dalton are in different classes, particularly when it comes to "bucket" throws, where the ball has to drop in between two defenders. It's not that Dalton is inaccurate on these kinds of throws: he actually has no clue how to make them. He usually overthrows his target and forces them to leap for it when the ball is supposed drop into their basket, and if they don't get a handle on the pass it may end up picked. Cam, on the other hand, hits them with regularity (see vs. Washington, the pass thrown to LaFell the play before he ran in the TD.)

Dalton's specialties are slants and crossing routes. He displays great touch on passes within a horizontal window, and is more than adequate on downfield throws as long as he is not under pressure.

Cam, on the other hand, can make any throw, at any time, under any pressure, as long as he at least attempts to properly set his feet, and even sometimes when he doesn't. I'm not saying he always makes them, but he has shown the ability repeatedly to make passes that are far beyond the norm for any rookie passer, or anything Dalton has dreamed of attempting (a perfect example would be the 20-yard throw he made, on the run, with both feet off the ground at his release, to Steve Smith to move the chains against Houston despite heavy pressure from a free blitzer.)

You frankly have no fugging clue what you're talking about when it comes to either one, and basically rely on a couple of stats and rankings that you think say things they really don't say because you literally have no idea what actually happens in a football game and are only here because nobody loves you and you feel a desperate need for attention.

Thread defeated.

Fatality.

[ed bell]

also i expect cam newton to look much better than matt moore in year five because he has physical tools that moore doesn't and his ceiling is higher for that reason. i just used the five year figure as a common value to keep things from becoming too complicated.

of course that's impossible to predict and blah blah blah

Matt has his year 5 stats under his belt....back next year? What happens? He's young, I think he gets more time at the helm...

[fieryprophet]

Cut out the rest because really it is unrelated to what I am curious about.

Since you have seen more of Andy Dalton than I have, do you really think that "all he does is dink and dunk for ten yards or less"?

I'm curious, because every game I've seen him in, he certainly runs a west coast offense, but there are are number of vertical plays a game where he is clearly able to stretch the field should the defense give him that option. But you have apparently seen him play more than I have, so I'm curious if that was not the norm.

Dalton's great for a WCO QB, and like I said earlier, he can make downfield throws, but his accuracy disappears under pressure for the most part. His downfield throws are overthrown most of the time, however; he's lucky he has a WR like Green that will go up and get almost anything thrown in his vicinity.

That's not to say he won't ever develop into more, but he's a great fit for what Cincy does, and the few times they've needed him to stray beyond that scheme he's struggled.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Matt has his year 5 stats under his belt....back next year? What happens? He's young, I think he gets more time at the helm...

well i mean i was referring to cam's fifth year, not matt's.