Why do you need to give a coach three years to prove himself?

[Awesomeness!!]

Should have given Clausen 3 years as well by that same logic..

[panthers55]

Should have given Clausen 3 years as well by that same logic..

Why? Did Clausen finish up in the middle of the pack as far as quarterbacks go and finish strong his rookie year to show progress or was he the worse quarterback in the NFL his rookie year and it wasn't even close? Plus Clausen is still here in year 3 and has had chances to start if he could cut it.

Those two issues are not even tangentially related.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Should have given Clausen 3 years as well by that same logic..

No because it was clear that after 10 plus starts, no matter the situation, Clausen was clearly over matched and had zero ceiling to improve.

Coaching is not as fluid of an evaluation as a player. There is no logic in this comparison.

[Cyberjag]

The issue is not whether he needs three years to prove himself. The issue for me is he going to be a good coach next year given how we are doing now, how he has progressed the team and projections that we will be better or worse next year. Or can we find a better guy who can come in and do a better job than Rivera can next year. The first two years are only germaine to assess the future not as some marker to say that this is how long he should have taken.

BTW- any stats on coaching years versus success need to compare apples to apples so we need to look at the success rate of first time head coaches over their first 3 years. Belicheck, for example,took 4 years to take Cleveland to the playoffs his first time coaching.

To your last point, I think it goes beyond that. Belichik inherited Bernie Kosar and still didn't win. He went to New England and couldn't win with Drew Bledsoe. When he finally started Brady, THEN he began to win.

It's going to be a combination of the right coach, right GM, and right playmakers on the team.

To your first point, I would like to believe in Rivera, but I'm not patient enough. I don't see him winning a Superbowl anywhere, and I think that when the games matter he can't get the job done. Watching the Panthers beat up their opponents through three quarters is proof enough that we have the talent, but the record doesn't reflect it. And that's Rivera, not youth, or bad luck, or a young QB. He's where the buck stops, and he's failed.

[Jackofalltrades]

Should have given Clausen 3 years as well by that same logic..

Is this not his third season?

[panthers55]

To your last point, I think it goes beyond that. Belichik inherited Bernie Kosar and still didn't win. He went to New England and couldn't win with Drew Bledsoe. When he finally started Brady, THEN he began to win.

It's going to be a combination of the right coach, right GM, and right playmakers on the team.

To your first point, I would like to believe in Rivera, but I'm not patient enough. I don't see him winning a Superbowl anywhere, and I think that when the games matter he can't get the job done. Watching the Panthers beat up their opponents through three quarters is proof enough that we have the talent, but the record doesn't reflect it. And that's Rivera, not youth, or bad luck, or a young QB. He's where the buck stops, and he's failed.

To your point, if Belicheck only won because Bledsoe got hurt and he put in Brady, then you could argue that it wasn't really due to him that they won and that if Bledsoe had stayed healthy, he would have lost in year 2 as well. Sorry don't buy that logic.

As for your not believing in Rivera, that is surely your prerogative. And your point that it is Rivera's fault is contradicted by your conclusion that it is a combination of the right coach, GM, and playmakers. The players including Newton really didn't know how to close out games in the NFl. The reality is that poor player execution by Newton alone cost us at least 2 or 3 games this year. I don't know how it can be Rivera's fault that Newton grounded a 5 yard pass to a wide open receiver inn the endzone or fumbled backwards after making a first down to seal the game. Or threw critical interceptions when he could have thrown the ball away. That doesn't include all the bone headed mistakes made by the defense which were execution issues.

Truth is if we had won just those 3 of those 7 games, we would be 8-6 and in the thick of things this weekend. Rivera would be universally praised and all would be right in Panther land.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

To your point, if Belicheck only won because Bledsoe got hurt and he put in Brady, then you could argue that it wasn't really due to him that they won and that if Bledsoe had stayed healthy, he would have lost in year 2 as well. Sorry don't buy that logic.

As for your not believing in Rivera, that is surely your prerogative. And your point that it is Rivera's fault is contradicted by your conclusion that it is a combination of the right coach, GM, and playmakers. The players including Newton really didn't know how to close out games in the NFl. The reality is that poor player execution by Newton alone cost us at least 2 or 3 games this year. I don't know how it can be Rivera's fault that Newton grounded a 5 yard pass to a wide open receiver inn the endzone or fumbled backwards after making a first down to seal the game. Or threw critical interceptions when he could have thrown the ball away. That doesn't include all the bone headed mistakes made by the defense which were execution issues.

Truth is if we had won just those 3 of those 7 games, we would be 8-6 and in the thick of things this weekend. Rivera would be universally praised and all would be right in Panther land.

Exactly this..

I think some guys think there is a coach who can say a magical incantation that will make the players more aware and increase their abilities.

Change just to change is not a cure-all you fire Rivera and bring in who? Inexperienced college coach? Expensive retread like Cowher?

Only guy id consider is Ken Whisenhunt but he better have good coordinators..bc he did well quickly with a patch work Zona team quick. Again, not Ken's fault the front office allows the team to just rot away talent with no vision.

[Cyberjag]

To your point, if Belicheck only won because Bledsoe got hurt and he put in Brady, then you could argue that it wasn't really due to him that they won and that if Bledsoe had stayed healthy, he would have lost in year 2 as well. Sorry don't buy that logic.

As for your not believing in Rivera, that is surely your prerogative. And your point that it is Rivera's fault is contradicted by your conclusion that it is a combination of the right coach, GM, and playmakers. The players including Newton really didn't know how to close out games in the NFl. The reality is that poor player execution by Newton alone cost us at least 2 or 3 games this year. I don't know how it can be Rivera's fault that Newton grounded a 5 yard pass to a wide open receiver inn the endzone or fumbled backwards after making a first down to seal the game. Or threw critical interceptions when he could have thrown the ball away. That doesn't include all the bone headed mistakes made by the defense which were execution issues.

Truth is if we had won just those 3 of those 7 games, we would be 8-6 and in the thick of things this weekend. Rivera would be universally praised and all would be right in Panther land.

I don't mean they would have lost, I mean that the combination of Belichik and Brady was better than Belichik and Bledsoe. In other words, you need the right mix.

And you're correct that we would be happy with Rivera if he was 8-6, and poor execution on the field has cost us several wins. I don't think that it's contradictory to say that it's both the coach's responsibility to get the maximum execution out of his players AND that it's a combination of coach/front office/players that gets you wins. For example, had Rivera put more emphasis on deep cover skills in practice maybe Nakamura wouldn't have been out of position. He's not the one on the field, but he does have responsibility for the results.

[Jim Harbaugh]

Just look at Indy.

It shouldn't take 3 years.

Wont even mention the 49ers..

[Peppers90 NC]

The 3 year rule isn't universal and varies per situation. Some coaches are axed after one year. You have to look at the individual cases and decide if the coach deserves another year. Like many have said, if Ron rallies the troops and finishes 7-9, I myself wouldn't be disappointed if he gets one more chance.

[panthers55]

I don't mean they would have lost, I mean that the combination of Belichik and Brady was better than Belichik and Bledsoe. In other words, you need the right mix.

And you're correct that we would be happy with Rivera if he was 8-6, and poor execution on the field has cost us several wins. I don't think that it's contradictory to say that it's both the coach's responsibility to get the maximum execution out of his players AND that it's a combination of coach/front office/players that gets you wins. For example, had Rivera put more emphasis on deep cover skills in practice maybe Nakamura wouldn't have been out of position. He's not the one on the field, but he does have responsibility for the results.

Rivera has admitted he has made mistakes and this week stated that is was a mistake not to have hired a coordinator with head coach experience to help him. He instead put all the emphasis on hiring good teachers to teach the players what to do. Maybe I being too optimistic but i would like too believe that philosophy is finally bearing fruit and will do so even more in the future. I don't want to give Rivera a total pass here because he surely has made mistakes. But I also don't want to throw him under the bus given that he has done some good things as well.

[Sword]

It's all going to depend on if he can beat NO in their home. That will be a true sign of progress.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Just look at Indy.

It shouldn't take 3 years.

Wont even mention the 49ers..

Just look at Indy.

Indy's schedule is a joke. They have been down and had to pull off comebacks on below average teams.

49ers

Jim is a great Coach and 49ers had great talent. Jim was smart to hide Alex Smith and his lack of playmaking ability. NFC west is not that tough either minus this years Seahawks. Rams and Zona are lay down games..or should be. This is also a coaching record outlier not the norm.

It shouldn't take 3 years.

-said Daniel Synder,..for the last decade..

anyone want to be my 200th pie giver? it feels special.

[Bj-Monster23]

We win two games in a row and the huddle goes full retard. Earlier in the season most of you guys wanted Rivera fired. The logic on this board is atrocious to say the least. What improvement have when seen from Rivera this year that says he deserved to be here next year? I'll give you the defense but that's it. Rivera has been worser this year then he was in his first year. I'm not buying in because we won two games in a row that he is the almighty Bill Parcells now. It doesn't work like that, what we got year 1 and year 2 is probably going to be what we will get year 3. The guy just can not get it done when it matters. You can believe what you want but the proof is in the pudding.